From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yi0-f43.google.com (mail-yi0-f43.google.com [209.85.218.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D49D8200ABA for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yib17 with SMTP id 17so3081012yib.16 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:58:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=88FJ6v+EEzlJLrmxsZF1k3bW4V13LjdF+KjPuLYLQzo=; b=LwmfoRVAKfyIsuxV2PVEu5zlrXT5v+G5z5efkNQByANYlNnmASNpJ936tPpFJEYKJb 8kZcm9Ocdz5jAcl/8yMpad7sjhY+ex0zYGTXX7eBcs4F7Lm8IYHGZRkbHMZA20396eLN cbXi7sfWpzUrEsh6XJpDYY4rtMtTf+ztYAXdM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.75.8 with SMTP id y8mr2610384icj.67.1316714297283; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.132.8 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:58:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E7B73D2.9070002@hp.com> References: <20110921230205.2275820C2E5@snark.thyrsus.com> <20110922021137.GB21302@thyrsus.com> <4E7B6D48.2040205@hp.com> <4E7B73D2.9070002@hp.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:58:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Preliminary results of using GPS to look for clock skew From: Dave Taht To: Rick Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, Eric Raymond , bloat-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-BeenThere: bloat-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "Developers working on AQM, device drivers, and networking stacks" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:58:19 -0000 On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Rick Jones wrote: > On 09/22/2011 10:34 AM, Dave Taht wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Rick Jones =A0wrot= e: >>> >>>> >>>> One thing that surprised me of late is >>>> http://www.bufferbloat.net/issues/271 >>>> >>>> while not related, surprises are the last thing we need as regards to >>>> time. >>>> >>> >>> The decision to stop letting networking contribute to entropy goes back= a >>> few years actually :) >> >> I wasn't paying attention then. >> >>> In another context, also where running-out of entropy was a problem, >>> someone >>> mentioned there are RNGs on USB keys that can be used to provide >>> randomness/entropy/whatnot. =A0The one mentioned in that discussion was= the >>> "Entropy Key" from these folks: http://www.entropykey.co.uk/ >> >> While I would like RNGs to be on-chip, the lack of randomness in a syste= m >> that supposedly does a lot of WPA encryption does concern me. >> >> https://dev.openwrt.org/ticket/9631 >> >> Secondly, routers at least have multiple interfaces to get randomness fr= om >> which would be hard to spoof all at the same time. >> >> and wireless routers have more noise sources and interfaces... >> >> so while I find the decision to eliminate networking as a source of >> randomness >> makes some sense in a device with only one interface, I find it >> indefensible to >> have nearly no entropy pool at all as a result for devices with >> multiple interfaces. > > I don't necessarily disagree, but there were a number of reasons given, m= any > of which I believe are/were independent of the number of interfaces in th= e > host. =A0I believe at least some of it can be found at > http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0805.3/0370.html =A0though= I > don't think it has the thread all the way back to its beginning. These guys are on drugs, and it doesn't look like my point about multiple interfaces was raised... http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0805.3/0383.html "Nearby microwave ovens will add periodicy to the arrival of WLAN data." Yep, that's your typical attacker, hauling a microwave oven around to help me crack WPA... What I want to know is how bad the decline in quality of urandom is without random sources.... > rick > --=20 Dave T=E4ht SKYPE: davetaht US Tel: 1-239-829-5608 http://the-edge.blogspot.com