From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mout.perfora.net", Issuer "Thawte SSL CA" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5855321F42B for ; Fri, 29 Aug 2014 07:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from J4 (c-68-50-226-187.hsd1.md.comcast.net [68.50.226.187]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mreueus003) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M0S2F-1YHgyq2J6T-00uYk9; Fri, 29 Aug 2014 16:37:09 +0200 From: "Jerry Jongerius" To: "'David Lang'" References: <000001cfbefe$69194c70$3b4be550$@duckware.com> <000901cfc2c2$c21ae460$4650ad20$@duckware.com> <4A89264B-36C5-4D1F-9E5E-33F2B42C364E@gmail.com> <002201cfc2e4$565c1100$03143300$@duckware.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:37:10 -0400 Message-ID: <002a01cfc396$ba5c8510$2f158f30$@duckware.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQFFVy+FAO2HJAXNGbNNrLY/R/b/6gGg5QYjATtzUJsCM/8plgJDZN5dAwhNtMwCHMBZ5pyYtKPw X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:RKTRckMHAbMubrem0a9TqvM9rG52porcwrdBnuSQ8Nz 7vyI6EdEOL35fEBRiSpR/0KNj5tzNzPulTz8SKTycpR78SSLe6 bftbHUwWeh7U67Gvjp2KwBgn0jEiTUiAutV/lpcN8xzcMExlz5 wz09GLqM/EBZ0RttjJpjDZ0eaBKAVi1piaZ7HgjbtkHgdjLIvI 4MrQcmfNZkbfefy9ZJjdaGfboNKpYIYgRJ8OIdMr73Q4jxVLgZ vvm1uIcXNRjB5/bpCyUx6Rq4v2g9GnLMd1wqMMMT6LpT5vhJva truJ6X+k5iLRXVqtE9RySEa0nCeGb3ndNrClnT/Qtd6S224I24 SCCr+Szi6HBYIIM9+mz11HSBxGEU8L8BakowDp0C7 X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] The Dark Problem with AQM in the Internet? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 14:37:11 -0000 > did you check to see if packets were re-sent even if they weren't lost? on of > the side effects of excessive buffering is that it's possible for a packet to > be held in the buffer long enough that the sender thinks that it's been > lost and retransmits it, so the packet is effectivly 'lost' even if it actually > arrives at it's destination. Yes. A duplicate packet for the missing packet is not seen. The receiver 'misses' a packet; starts sending out tons of dup acks (for all packets in flight and queued up due to bufferbloat), and then way later, the packet does come in (after the RTT caused by bufferbloat; indicating it is the 'resent' packet).