From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86C113B29E for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 07:56:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id v5so1355638lfe.7 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:56:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=bfZe7BhbNxW7vfZylb71vdcJ1T/0kSph16zoIFYeINY=; b=I3qmXALUsBgr48CyuH2Btq9+Wc/wfGrB5t42utkf/+25p5T21NaFlYTTpCWbNJ+hOV 5nUEjiax4M7l8/9vJM2cFGochjtOmMCfYVSSHJVCBq40Dv3+hNcy3vdhX8R8p7TpDEJp pxZJDBF5tgOD457AsWTANWp18sjW4JDAbdH4qcoEVLddN+gC52L+4CNQRj1VNxbSE7kS k+u+1CPVDbnS9QgtdeWyFkXwFR1qOSSpOi/y12mrdzhQvNooyIYvWB2yamAiK+yEcJGP PqSY8HXzmaQ6V0pjRhHfzGOGMASV4Ayzz+bIrCE2cdrxL5UDNKKLf5ZOWLN/87CA22M1 P6gA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=bfZe7BhbNxW7vfZylb71vdcJ1T/0kSph16zoIFYeINY=; b=q8J+X6xVWAzhaRy5QNFlNmdKK85hDyfalxmy3K0SZ0RTOhwW3vdkJLvho/eMA9aoNX IWLoFb8I+76VMai8wyq59PzRJQESbKGdg9vQxyaiYjoWJXZwjhuulMYcCpfbrwGHsYon mNUgdYdO1Pc9of7bz2j8kONsmiGrWQxbgmS7T4yAkOPrVxSYMjQ+FG6NYYpltVqVDnYE zVAZuiZp+CXCYlDgwqsT7ZMP/wbF5kdWOyxVr2p9srv/tAvmiAuFcZgdZy2llXZcLvo9 HojfowzkZ4CNuXsAf6qsrdtG1lmB5ieHSHuGWh3J1d2Uz06spjKpha/PgM7qSae0n5Au Zrzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYoKbrviN3F2jmrxFH3EdF4mbAXOQfyqK1D0nC/BqQkxNXkGWv1 G9mAEuW6mbT/MQdfO1Md4Hc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XdttM+++DHLq9gQHlVJnWGEafHRKUxNoNEp7xgz694ASD+1osUsL8iZNtMbT716AwHK0ABJg== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:41cb:: with SMTP id d11mr1027577lfi.3.1543496184305; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-236-220-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.236.220]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e5-v6sm277015ljj.91.2018.11.29.04.56.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:56:23 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <6025E3FF-E413-43F5-B9EB-4FC000846BE4@ifi.uio.no> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:56:22 +0200 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <01A9062C-52DB-4FE8-A866-2796B2ADF88C@gmail.com> References: <65EAC6C1-4688-46B6-A575-A6C7F2C066C5@heistp.net> <38535869-BF61-4FC4-A0FB-96E91CC4F076@ifi.uio.no> <87va4gwe74.fsf@taht.net> <7125B446-F2C4-45B3-B48C-8720B1E35776@gmail.com> <7D833179-4D95-4C2F-B0AF-4FFD4D29DEE4@ifi.uio.no> <6025E3FF-E413-43F5-B9EB-4FC000846BE4@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Welzl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Bloat] incremental deployment, transport and L4S (Re: when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world?) X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:56:25 -0000 > On 29 Nov, 2018, at 2:12 pm, Michael Welzl wrote: >=20 > But then, wouldn't it be good to have a way to tell the network "I = don't care about ordering" ? I have to ask, why would the network care? What optimisations can be = obtained by reordering packets *within* a flow, when it's usually just = as easy to deliver them in order? Of course, we already have FQ which reorders packets in *different* = flows. The benefits are obvious in that case. - Jonathan Morton