From: rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: dan <dandenson@gmail.com>, Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: [Bloat] On metrics
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:00:35 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <0649f7dc2b6e7ca1634b675dc6f9d953@rjmcmahon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2885829.1679221616@dyas>
Hi All,
It seems getting the metrics right is critical. Our industry can't be
reporting things that mislead or misassign blame. The medical community
doesn't treat people for cancer without having a high degree they've
gotten the diagnostics correct as an example.
An initial metric, per this group, would be geared towards
responsiveness or the speed of causality. Here, we may need to include
linear distance, the power required to achieve a responsiveness and to
take account of Pareto efficiencies, where one device's better
responsiveness can't make another's worse.
An example per a possible FiWi new & comprehensive metric: A rating
could be something like 10K responses per second at 1Km terrestrial
(fiber) cable / 6m radius free space range / 5W total / 0-impact to
others. If consumers can learn to read nutrition labels they can also
learn to read these.
Maybe a device produces a scan code qr based upon its e3e measurement
and the scan code qr loads a page with human interpretable analysis?
Similar to how we now pull up menus on our mobile phones listing the
food items and the nutrition information that's available to seat at a
table. Then, in a perfect world, there is a rating per each link hop or
better, network jurisdiction. Each jurisdiction could decide if they
want to participate or not, similar to connecting up an autonomous
system or not. I think measurements of network jurisdictions without
prior agreements are unfair. The lack of measurement capability is
likely enough pressure needed to motivate actions.
Bob
PS. As a side note, and a shameless plug, iperf 2 now supports
bounceback and a big issue has been clock sync for one way delays (OWD.)
Per a comment from Jean Tourrhiles
https://sourceforge.net/p/iperf2/tickets/242/ I added some unsync
detections in the bounceback measurements. Contact me directly if your
engineering team needs more information on iperf 2.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-19 21:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 170+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
[not found] ` <1672786712.106922180@apps.rackspace.com>
[not found] ` <F4CA66DA-516C-438A-8D8A-5F172E5DFA75@cable.comcast.com>
2023-01-09 15:26 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 18:54 ` [Bloat] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] " Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12 ` dan
2023-03-13 16:36 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26 ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 4:27 ` [Bloat] On FiWi rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 11:10 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18 ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 0:11 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15 5:20 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 16:17 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Aaron Wood
2023-03-15 17:05 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:33 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08 ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 16:38 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21 ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00 ` rjmcmahon [this message]
2023-03-20 0:26 ` [Bloat] On metrics dan
2023-03-20 3:03 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-20 20:46 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 21:28 ` dan
2023-03-20 21:38 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 22:02 ` [Bloat] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-21 0:10 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 5:21 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 11:26 ` [Bloat] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:31 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 12:53 ` Rich Brown
2023-03-21 15:22 ` Jan Ceuleers
2023-03-21 18:33 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:22 ` dan
2023-03-21 19:04 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-23 18:23 ` dan
2023-03-21 12:29 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:51 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 19:58 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06 ` David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39 ` [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15 ` [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 22:04 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50 ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 0:04 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26 0:07 ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26 0:50 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26 8:45 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 0:28 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 0:57 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33 ` David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34 ` [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 21:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 21:26 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 17:06 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Larry Press
2023-03-28 17:47 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 18:11 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-28 18:46 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 20:37 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 21:31 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 22:18 ` dan
2023-03-28 22:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 8:28 ` Sebastian Moeller
[not found] ` <a2857ec4-a6ea-e9eb-cf99-17ef7ea08ef2@indexexchange.com>
[not found] ` <716ECAAD-E2EE-4647-9E73-D60BF8BF9C1E@searls.com>
2023-03-29 13:40 ` [Bloat] Enabling a production model Dave Taht
2023-03-29 14:54 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-29 16:53 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-29 18:33 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:13 ` [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-29 17:34 ` dan
2023-03-29 20:03 ` David Lang
2023-03-29 17:46 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Rich Brown
2023-03-29 19:02 ` tom
2023-03-29 19:08 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:31 ` tom
2023-03-29 19:11 ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-03-29 13:46 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-29 14:57 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:23 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 19:02 ` [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 19:37 ` dan
2023-03-25 20:27 ` [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-13 19:33 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27 ` dan
2023-03-14 9:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02 ` [Bloat] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:04 ` [Bloat] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:22 ` [Bloat] Offtopic: passive ping. was: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Collier-Brown
2023-03-13 18:50 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:48 ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-01-09 20:49 ` [Bloat] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 20:20 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:02 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Dick Roy
2023-01-10 17:36 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " David P. Reed
[not found] <mailman.276.1679281383.1222.bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
2023-03-20 11:30 ` [Bloat] On metrics Rich Brown
2023-03-20 11:56 ` Sebastian Moeller
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