From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC59E3B2A4 for ; Fri, 13 May 2022 03:48:51 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1652428125; bh=y6GspHWkqCbvgzykiZ1LgADeQXKwf2sdu55YpHPlDiQ=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=Z+f8N3KDFGld9VTlTuk9DkARqqi2AJqrPWxJ4dYVSwjKCWVK85rq3ACF2cNzNDoak BhnODfjbE1XWBBkRPvtsPcDDlXlKDkIuh0bfZKkG15nEh6jVwdim7mabdCwvxIachS hs91CAS3kRmGlDtBDF5CSaDsjxsSxOk3EhTq+rUU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MSc1L-1nNBmm1ID3-00Sukf; Fri, 13 May 2022 09:48:45 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:48:43 +0200 Cc: Christoph Paasch , "nichols@pollere.net" , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <08357BCC-6B99-41E5-91BA-FC8ACAB4D8CA@gmx.de> References: <96F2051D-753D-4D67-A6D3-5A053975508C@apple.com> To: "Klatsky, Carl" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:LfGLlcLuvaYKdT0lds6OtCcxlbxdk+rUcUTQgzvw6mlLRjcx2I2 8DHOqpXg4UJK1QSSj0CV/Ls9dq6dIIlJDG5PXxmEn78HWnoWlnM870j6ziGpyUIfEXijAAd BndR4NHkPxsH2yPdADinqcAfG6h5WPPjlCpeh0ywppCO9jsv4IrAw8EN8CDT/o33nDps2S7 8c+Kzk/5qb4os2dqe90Fw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:T+8XlQxssQw=:e1l/G4WoqxCYefpBjiZyUh rBXPkoB4iv//rpFm+ATzAGlNDjoswQxE90nsP4+NOMcbTOdxvQGFh3zE+u2TOaXvgeVxq5QTE OH+onY89/M5gQifSgG1l1/MrAA0bMmSA+SaUjvApBR1Nw7zGigJmY7fj8GW6WYD+jGJxWOHP3 UCDhWyl60ocOUgXCqSpBBTYFBS+Ia+Ig5QLjBTugxU909CoF3yqa5uxL8mBsR+l0nQrc2ZJjc EoCEx3ln4f56FCr59haCr31oPUGzMIr2AqI4jVtnG4fHBJzaxOdZYp+EVAsbVSF9tq5DwZ/75 9NHXHUPKOp/cyObl/6lmVnsSvkbGpMRwxRILoeGp242uPsC/EKbBc1m9u18QE4/McwCQF/NS/ s3VVzTu6ZbBoyDCYXluKnU+FlzJLYCKlW6WBZNG2FgLrRmEeONrHS4jDo+YmTN2dbqZC/W+hN oq2loS2fqNfXscwCyGpa/KsmyoekdRNdctbPX3UaHBcf+LjM8rmj4igJHDHWAexutj59uA4// Ku2PBa+A6+PRBUubR3kRqUr430YOZwyJlEo/YLCgj9AE0mUR1ADPJW0OgRSnzJpMlDGodJFTw Xhh9hav/810WFCbCZHgLo9Fmz6nb9kcXcrVrn+ZASpYd3qK1jDSfyd0s06YjW9CZzhgM6ra6U 5GzvqJsAA9zCtx5ceCruPRccjioOFt9IHK5omCJRHU7hpBDz8twDde+bYavinSnJBQZ0d8cWH aS9tgId0PPXsSbs5FUKTfyvtA7oXGwLGx9otu0pjgXEruDXN7BDKJKbONJQsjQVl1d3rPcgEl elq4QEx9+VUby0WW2s3FnvhryFZ7tUuMA6nvwlPTpEusFvVXoAj4qt/IT8C1zFbWl0T7kRHiX Zv8fTP9QNCS89P226h7+cKf7xDYJ/eCINFnUvOE2t3fbe8mXlvUwwUq1W9F2OXDnjIr/yKJ0L 3G/ZDmISHXvaAohbIvfqzeswiICts0LnrmlfhBMaYIbvvs/lXP6itdMZmmbVDTt7NcpGdZhkz 5y5UBuhRKuZobFjiKp2toWRYOdfwsngD4Qr605WbhR8XVGqSgPvZRHn9JWX48ed7IOdTs2cQN DpGzjAonN/cvoaDxeYwG5jBA41dM8wglC+pc8mJVBil7bpZV9/T6cr/Pw== Subject: Re: [Bloat] Ookla - Introducing a Better Measure of Latency X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 07:48:52 -0000 Hi Carl, > On May 12, 2022, at 23:04, Klatsky, Carl via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > Its good that they are running the latency test also during the load = test, but from what it looks like, they seem to be running the latency = test to the same server as the load test. I think a more realistic test = is to run the load test to one server and the latency test to a = different server. That's a more realistic use case... The question boils down to what "latency-under-load" should be = measured here: a) latency of different flows/hosts b) latency of the load bearing flow(s) both are informative, but if I had to choose I would ask Ookla for b), = because running mtr/gping in parallel to a speedtest is comparatively = easy compared to post-hoc deducing latency in the load bearing = connection*... (I would assume that from a packet capture one might be = able to piece this together when looking at the delay between sending a = segment and receiving that matching ACK, which is more hassle than = running e.g. "mtr -ezb4 --order LSNBAWVJMXI 8.8.8.8" ;) )=20 Regards Sebastian *) Well, there are pping (https://github.com/pollere/pping) and DlyLoc = (https://github.com/pollere/DlyLoc), but so far I have not tried to make = these run on my router (probably should start on an endhost first). >=20 > Regards, > Carl Klatsky >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bloat On Behalf Of = Christoph Paasch via Bloat > Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2022 4:01 PM > To: nichols@pollere.net > Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Bloat] Ookla - Introducing a Better Measure of Latency >=20 > I'm not aware of any rigorous study. But, just from the code, I know = ICMP ping in many cases has a different traffic-class and thus = implicitly gets quite a different treatment than real traffic. >=20 > However, Ookla uses TCP (port 8080) to probe the latency in their app. >=20 >=20 > Christoph >=20 >> On May 12, 2022, at 12:44 PM, Kathleen Nichols = wrote: >>=20 >> a ping by any other name... >>=20 >> Has anyone ever done a rigorous study to see how well ping delays = correspond to the delay that information-carrying packets experience? >>=20 >> On 5/12/22 10:15 AM, Christoph Paasch via Bloat wrote: >>> Ookla's measure of "loaded latency": >>> = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducin >>> = g-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DHnGDBw2sqsRwHiidAQUOhjXEavZmBOtJKb_IzPhxM= m2vqUPyRC2pkVnScJId_KdaNVLsOS7sD0E8QRQ0m8B7LqBavY$ = This will hopefully be = a shift in how operators approach the bufferbloat problem. >>> Christoph >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bloat mailing list >>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bl >>> = oat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DHnGDBw2sqsRwHiidAQUOhjXEavZmBOtJKb_IzPhxMm2vqUPyR >>> C2pkVnScJId_KdaNVLsOS7sD0E8QRQ0m8BllXPjdw$ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/blo >> = at__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DHnGDBw2sqsRwHiidAQUOhjXEavZmBOtJKb_IzPhxMm2vqUPyRC2 >> pkVnScJId_KdaNVLsOS7sD0E8QRQ0m8BllXPjdw$ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__= ;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DHnGDBw2sqsRwHiidAQUOhjXEavZmBOtJKb_IzPhxMm2vqUPyRC2pkVnScJI= d_KdaNVLsOS7sD0E8QRQ0m8BllXPjdw$ > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat