From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-1" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C38A521F2F2 for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 08:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hms-beagle-5.home.lan ([217.247.216.138]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MX16a-1YiyLp41Aa-00Vy4e; Sat, 02 May 2015 17:01:02 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 17:01:10 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0CEC2579-566A-4B00-9A13-B6F29641D39D@gmx.de> References: <87618e6gkm.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <58258E43-953F-4A3B-ABC0-EA4193CC67C1@gmail.com> To: jb X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:AqMx03+s5IIvoq6kOqyoihCbG3lEI0/BW+TClcjOQL6eyMuk7Xx STdSLyqf6SXPM9wGBekI8+iwk3u1mig/lRItts2iReTBw43a7xLJeRG2SksAHt9RUHNfZJg FEqsSIP8NOeIsJIBmfWQASODnferB+QXv0CIqCwmR+7k67hO67usQeB/8JvyYxuiZKw+yDW GnF+PTdPUSWWhLbV3ku3w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] extremely good dslreports result for bufferbloat on free.fr X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 15:01:38 -0000 Hi Jb, On May 2, 2015, at 15:40 , jb wrote: > Each bar is an individual probe they go out once per second, which = determines their > position along the X-Axis, and are tagged by color *when they come = back*. Thanks, that is exactly the information I was looking for. Given = that, I vote for reporting the maximum of the latency under load = increases, so take the mean from the pre-download test period and = subtract that from each individual download and upload RTT value, select = the maximum and report that. Measuring once per second is petty sparse, = so no need for any fancy reporting (also good look getting a = 98%-percentile for say the 10-11 download RTTs ;) even taking all ~40 = RTTs will make 98% hard to reach unless you round=85 95% though will = work okay-ish). > For the radar plot, the ones showing latencies to each location, it is = nothing to do > with buffer bloat but there are two green colors super-imposed, the = worst and the > best of several probes per location. Ah, I had a hunch that would be that, thanks. Best Regards Sebastian >=20 > On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: > Hi Jb, >=20 > I wonder the ping RTT plot, does it show all individual RTT-probes, or = is it showing an aggregate measure per bar? If aggregate which measure = (hopefully the maximum or something close like a high percentile)? >=20 >=20 > Best Regards > Sebastian >=20 > On May 1, 2015, at 08:31 , jb wrote: >=20 > > >This got an A+ rating, which I would not have given it, given the > > enormous load spike. > > > > I think there will always be the occasional incorrectly graded test, > > this one is simply because the median of the downstream latency > > ignores the spike. If I used average(), then it would not ignore > > the spike, however one very high outlier could also ruin a good = result. > > After all, pinging anything on the internet can always get the odd > > bad response now and again. > > > > If neither average nor median is any good, then there needs to be > > a filter function. But what filter? ignoring spikes that are hugely = higher > > than neighbouring ones? that would fail if there was a spike every = 3rd > > sample. Open to ideas.. > > > > Here is a result from the australian telco free public hotspot: > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/399962 > > > > On the side of the hotspot it says 'send us your thoughts about this > > free service'. Well my thought is that if one person posted a = picture > > to Instagram, the whole hotspot would be unusable for as long as it > > took to upload. 6 seconds of buffer in there somewhere. > > > > cheers, > > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Dave Taht = wrote: > > This got an A+ rating, which I would not have given it, given the > > enormous load spike. > > > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/400387 > > > > Imagine if your steering wheel behaved like this. > > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:10 PM, jb wrote: > > > Already users are like "how can i fix this!". > > > > The FAQ can be improved. > > > > > I've just replied to one who has lower speeds on the surfboard = SB6141 which > > > is a modem designed for crazy cable speeds. He has an "F" and his = downstream > > > bloat is terrible, and upstream not much better. > > > > > > I imagine a LOT of people on slower plans have a "recommended" = modem like > > > this one. > > > > I have not found a cable modem with less than 250ms bloat at = 50mbit/5. > > The docsis 3 ones > > are often in the 800 ms range. > > > > > > > > However most of them will hear that the problems from bloat only = happen when > > > you reach maximum upload or download speed and will think, well, I = can live > > > with that, I never run my connection to capacity and I don't = upload to > > > offsite backups.. > > > > Latency spikes are annoying no matter how they are inflicted, and = happen > > all the time on nearly any workload. Your test is testing tcp in = steady state, > > most web transactions are bursts of dozens to a hundred flows in = slow > > start. > > > > It is the business class customers that feel it most often. I have = never > > visited a business class cable customer that had reasonable amounts = of delay > > and jitter during business hours. > > > > After living in bloat-free universe for quite some time now, = annoying > > issues with things like netflix are decreased, voip and = videoconferencing > > work all the time, same for games... > > > > it would be hard to create a metric > > for user satisfaction, but every before/after comparison someone > > implementing a solution is quite overjoyed. > > > > https://twitter.com/mnot/status/575581792650018816 > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Rich Brown = wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:33 PM, jb wrote: > > >> > ... > > >> >> if it did get a rating it would be an "D" or "F".. > > >> > > > >> > How about "E" for error? That can be further explained in the = text > > >> > "Sometimes the bloat is so bad that we cannot adaquately test = for it - > > >> > and other times there is something else badly wrong with the = link that > > >> > we cannot identify." > > >> > > >> I would stay away from a letter grade for that state, since it = could > > >> appear to be on the continuum of A+, A, B, C, D, E (?) F... > > >> > > >> Better to give it a "-" or "?" mark. And if they hover over the = "?", let > > >> the text show: "Sometimes the bloat is so bad that we cannot = adaquately test > > >> for it - and other times there is something else badly wrong with = the link > > >> that we cannot identify." > > >> > > >> Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dave T=E4ht > > Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > > > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >=20 >=20