From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C521E3BA8E for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 13:59:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id p17so17347138lfh.4 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:59:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=60/iHdBSk0RnKwPnLZ8So0efNKfRjxtsbResuAel7og=; b=qZyBaONaBAP4koB5DYhqxJFcBRfMv+OrHXF8VO7jJbo+zC4W/bzkYF1FrY1ZFv1OHk hyPxHQi0MmMbkKOKMdmizi3DjXOsR+bbvcnamqKROARbkt6e1LSr/hzeSHO2EH6siaN8 L4kg0tCVqCFoEWFgpdgw8cPaWk4LVAWPR3FKowywlkAPR4DYDAHLPy6IFZzfCIfn2CWS VkgZ+s0iszdO77d8NG7GVbarnoF0I83hY4cMvT9ueiJ9grtqLu+YPT4pOsWwx0fxw05C cxPfT8JU+Qwz8MT5TDeX7seGYWoWwkUfPiIuKiVngAq1NCw/v1PjHdpqxyfxVTTZtK7Y SPBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=60/iHdBSk0RnKwPnLZ8So0efNKfRjxtsbResuAel7og=; b=H27XHli4Z83DT2muzoqPM/bpmhmUIhRgfC6FXQEZ2cSZEmT6Kx9GHAWvToqN1UA+SQ UofFanEs8zpn5eKdIrfXh/cIBfTu5hqNHKj4MJSpajHVz4+8yCUlaJkGB3BmdKLuG5jZ wi4v9cwepdDCnXfpfk0SMexZ/0Ryr1MZmW3cJPRzL4u1bMo67e5BoAvADM2gccu9twgK Txx5ELgDD8lFR/hnVqvFVETLcvg4XOhm8luyKKR2egMZcPj1rVV85R8Uy0qFZsmEKPv0 cZegNTseI/8Uqyp7O3vohfjpE1IDPZOA6fFT2wbQVCWynWuolNIy3i44WPMZ2KIzKT/q 7evQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLmoGiFZJACoEbd7avdL/E236VpzOMTQJQhHAdmmmlBGJLbx6r1 ZI5eKp72RFEAguZntEdTZlY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eB7P//996ngeGLfutu4odgb5TIzJzYAZIyY/lwU01qZ7kYjOmyL/ILpO1tIARtqHZrobwciA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:54d7:: with SMTP id b84mr18683804lfl.131.1543345150545; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-236-220-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.236.220]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i143sm819037lfg.74.2018.11.27.10.59.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:59:09 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <11239.1543324744@dooku.sandelman.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 20:59:07 +0200 Cc: Pete Heist , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E4D43CF-CA25-4F21-B529-451692F6D542@gmail.com> References: <65EAC6C1-4688-46B6-A575-A6C7F2C066C5@heistp.net> <38535869-BF61-4FC4-A0FB-96E91CC4F076@ifi.uio.no> <87a7lvwkr7.fsf@toke.dk> <6F5EB690-3D7E-4112-8890-CF727FF59EFE@heistp.net> <11239.1543324744@dooku.sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 18:59:12 -0000 > On 27 Nov, 2018, at 3:19 pm, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > If the drops are due to noise, then I don't think it will help. > The congestion signals should already getting made. If they are drops due to noise, then they are not congestion signals at = all, as they occur independently of whether the link is saturated. It's = perfectly possible for these "random drops" to occur at a low enough = rate as to still permit saturation, perhaps depending on which CC algo = the sender uses. In that case, you still want AQM. - Jonathan Morton