From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E18403CB39 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 03:22:39 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1655364158; bh=KyfL4hkqukojZOV8YHg4l3SQzsHkZMh3Nsj6ubzNgqc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=BD1WsGeuE4dmYZTzVtZ2STkxBFPdokrg919YwAsEhatM5IR6WHpvcWUMs0p4IGmIe lzSZ8wr3PsTVS2t/aRmemDM5p5KChm/ytTtrPQSxFTbVVZ6UzwpdwJJupQbaBlECZe 1y+8An6ISiM8bANlBPiVcIU24VP05WYc1EGP7cv0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mo6qp-1nLXJV0TYB-00paYT; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:22:38 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.100.31\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <580DF947-1160-405C-9019-0A6CD8FC49A3@ifi.uio.no> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:22:37 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E865241-B9DF-4383-A99B-4C6BA1D1C467@gmx.de> References: <580DF947-1160-405C-9019-0A6CD8FC49A3@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Welzl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.100.31) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:rkHQlEVU0HmC8IDvIZeJ7Jl2al/6+qjrIig+lTAvYl5KTfHNYoC LmI4Y7L4ojEMRGiNoVf36ZVi+jltuQMy3ku+9376mZX+4Q9rnd9s6id45Fc71kWIagDIFE+ tOdk3ID3Y0ylpIc979mfOZ8PLscsXSh7dA2BNed4TWLoqK73xWRxmm34aL3q4ChTo62qs14 0zUIHanvpxFkwt8o/jQTQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:UYK7ppCGZYI=:oahz8IzTNYfg2/5yqSYuHX a1TvTTVIGC0xeJTNf6k+OkCYjiYobj2K7z5xrcV+hMVNhcOuyg1LlXUO3DAsXe2+9jIkd9ZCw FNJA+i7mTh3xEr/+fH8PtLcnpRtrlrduOVZ0fGu4+HHnsUY43N2rHc2+5tNnlOeKqLoxuF8p/ mQAG1+24nYcVSS4TZJKRZotyj/hwiM/UXL6DUcRCkloCxwS98oTSLjW2yI26rKUGsgtan2+0s f1cTT2E+RwqSqpobOPgg0kfVsjeWOhEMYp7kvFEvmN9YOkGD34kv0vBtqkmfe0k4x4uv4fDoY i5n93KJB4MoKBgn3gMg9TBJ4A0rxEJAGB1uN9onOoAkNfjIPQH/zxNM+eAVb/WkdnxrE8c786 +LLelzgWJbCf7RUhVbtL9p/3jhBnIC6/lQ69ZGP3ZpS1nhHC59g20/bQdtCoMgV+IPyS8CRK1 Gf/RNHMS7som30XJrZijCQbqgWfJYNgvnNNykd6bytQwLAwXQS5KOQ18hpAg+F+NHkxZd+qRu ABcCc9XV2NWm0bhLKmxjSrHcV4m9OVZJlVKN1OGQuLnBMLzcBJwsVaryE92lidcBFnCcY2ZrD NVyrd3Zut5wibI44Mf5pvksx1t8sWDBK7bBgdoff0+fMRxiwD7rInTO9RRYpVcC9lq71eI/So L5JT81dcVqVGilFLS8h1LEAIK9kDSBikk+scPU2aIx6/0pngHyu65iLYAUINIxq7Fy5YTy0xT iik5vijjkUQ9G6ZPTbZkpLWuPQSSqfC8Vib6nXF+IxpRzEMhuWcXcaQsxrUraiSvlkt3NJIeB yUj1M1e2CDsq02CZ0sibtSgZh+fF5ad5ggdisLnCWWjF6V1Des64LJ+1nHXT58Hsfb8qp43u8 ev4+ewIR959ZZcOiBxoT2p7JzAL+YE9sgff9JakgNqQ6oscc3kM0nH5cReEmrPQDOqfB7m8Bo BEr0jzo5mdrggmWKqR0vtZKYjizctHI6s6ogjWPttkZhvE/IV5kf/anJgkXsF3Oc3ezGjtzcC qRnMnIMGnxS6J021UAzL1jyfgKoPDwEsl4BUVGeMc7SyDPkKEajjuZLztsgXatpG0GnVG7MKS QGxZLrOukJ5L6i2b0G5RerAMP/NIfoeCP3hpYRswxKcOWovKQiDwYwyHw== Subject: Re: [Bloat] the future of tcp - train wreck or evolution? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 07:22:40 -0000 HI MIchael, > On Jun 16, 2022, at 07:48, Michael Welzl via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > =E2=80=A6 but I=E2=80=99m excited about slide 15 ! >=20 > "Heat, CO2, and radioactive waste are becoming measurable by-products = of TCP inefficiency > Fix TCP =3D> Save the World!=E2=80=9D >=20 > People don=E2=80=99t yet focus enough on this - The slide deck however omits presenting the evidence for that = hypothesis... > and it=E2=80=99s not only relevant in a data center context. See also: >=20 > Michael Welzl: "Not a Trade-Off: On the Wi-Fi Energy Efficiency of = Effective Internet Congestion Control", IEEE/IFIP WONS 2022, virtual, 30 = March - 1 April 2022. > Preprint: = https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publications/wons2022_= authors_version.pdf >=20 > A couple of IETFs ago, I did sign up to present something along these = lines at an ICCRG meeting, but I asked late and got squeezed into an = =E2=80=9Cif time permits=E2=80=9D slot; some day in the future I=E2=80=99l= l ask for a =E2=80=9Cproper slot=E2=80=9D to elaborate on this. Curious, should such an observation not look at the aggregate = energy consumption of senders and receivers? And maybe also report the = total energy consumption of those devices for reference to allow an = estimate of how much "radioactive waste" can be easily avoided? Mind you, I am not arguing that saving energy (even small = amounts) is not desirable, I just want to see how that stacks up with = the total energy consumed by those systems. Regards Sebastian >=20 > Cheers, > Michael >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 16, 2022, at 4:35 AM, Dave Taht via Bloat = wrote: >>=20 >> as seen in 2008. >>=20 >> https://slideplayer.com/slide/5747321/ >>=20 >> Regrettably all the answers on slide 13 are elided. >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> FQ World Domination pending: = https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat