From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out02.uio.no (mail-out02.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:8210::71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88C203CB43 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-mx06.uio.no ([129.240.10.40]) by mail-out02.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1f3OZz-0006Tn-AC; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 18:14:39 +0200 Received: from 93-58-133-64.ip158.fastwebnet.it ([93.58.133.64] helo=[10.0.0.2]) by mail-mx06.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1f3OZx-0004CI-DE; Tue, 03 Apr 2018 18:14:39 +0200 From: Michael Welzl Message-Id: <0ED5B59A-5C31-4F70-A2C9-04D9EA779A7B@ifi.uio.no> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9288BE67-9169-4CC3-A69A-531945262942" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 18:14:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , Jonathan Morton , bloat To: Jesper Louis Andersen References: <50e57074-4ca5-59f7-f010-d9b2b845a8a7@rogers.com> <8DE589C3-9537-416D-AC7C-9250464869F9@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx06.uio.no: 93.58.133.64 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=93.58.133.64; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=[10.0.0.2]; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=0.001, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 121F7AD5D3D936FFB7847A49B28816F9B2AE3821 Subject: Re: [Bloat] Seen in passing: mention of Valve's networking scheme and RFC 5348 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:14:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9288BE67-9169-4CC3-A69A-531945262942 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 3, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Jesper Louis Andersen = wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:27 PM Michael Welzl > wrote: > please, please, people, take a look at the ietf taps (=E2=80=9Ctransport= services=E2=80=9D) working group :-) >=20 >=20 > I tried looking it up. It seems the TAPS WG is about building a = consistent interface to different protocols in order to get a new = interface rather than, say, the bsd socket interface. >=20 > But my search turned up several drafts from the WG. Did you have one = in particular in mind? Thanks for taking a look! Indeed, it=E2=80=99s about a consistent interface - I was provoked to = send this message by the reference to ossification, and talk of messages = (lacking in TCP). Sure, when you=E2=80=99re in control of both ends of a connection, you = can build whatever you want on top of UDP - but there=E2=80=99s a lot of = wheel re-inventing there. Really, the transport layer can=E2=80=99t = change as long as applications (or their libraries) are exposed to only = the services of TCP and UDP, and thereby statically bound to these = transport protocols. I think I=E2=80=99d recommend this draft as a starting point: = https://taps-api.github.io/drafts/draft-trammell-taps-interface.html = Cheers, Michael --Apple-Mail=_9288BE67-9169-4CC3-A69A-531945262942 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Apr 3, 2018, at 4:48 PM, Jesper Louis Andersen <jesper.louis.andersen@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:27 PM Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no> = wrote:
please, please, people, take a look at the ietf = taps (=E2=80=9Ctransport services=E2=80=9D) working group  :-)


I tried looking it up. It seems the TAPS WG is = about building a consistent interface to different protocols in order to = get a new interface rather than, say, the bsd socket interface.

But my search = turned up several drafts from the WG. Did you have one in particular in = mind?

Thanks for taking a look!
Indeed, it=E2=80=99s = about a consistent interface - I was provoked to send this message by = the reference to ossification, and talk of messages (lacking in = TCP).
Sure, when you=E2=80=99re in control of both ends of a = connection, you can build whatever you want on top of UDP - but = there=E2=80=99s a lot of wheel re-inventing there. Really, the transport = layer can=E2=80=99t change as long as applications (or their libraries) = are exposed to only the services of TCP and UDP, and thereby statically = bound to these transport protocols.

I = think I=E2=80=99d recommend this draft as a starting point:  https://taps-api.github.io/drafts/draft-trammell-taps-interface= .html

Cheers,
Michael

= --Apple-Mail=_9288BE67-9169-4CC3-A69A-531945262942--