From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9BD93B29D for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2020 13:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id u21so10786854ljl.6 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:09:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XX0zrH59ZH4ms5flmDyavjxJuUATlIfcBSpff56diP4=; b=p6Mm4bB1W6en+Fh/siiypPhlJ+WGTGGUlteAd+EROpkceXb8+9O6HZou3maSQJNf/A fmkLM9YPuyVIU938LMIv/D0KYzQHSahTIEAuCutGRvRJsX73Nxeyp/aQQ1D3vThdAIwq fFrs2Y0HvSMhdXyqBkxG/BPSfR90/PGy9wlRGue/gHgghzpsPXbviJHfQtbbpxiKIpzs EtWVNTVXsgaQVJYubNhf5QlkRCBVKrRBTwXazC1Ubk49M4wmrNlLg3NwjFvVSKFEmzRQ LGnfXLmqR2cHEJp/IsBe/O7R4sg65OY98SflG0+L3gywI/IOrUfCTWvX25R3pl2jDFx7 KCHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XX0zrH59ZH4ms5flmDyavjxJuUATlIfcBSpff56diP4=; b=L+3pMBPbjp4Q4QK/HWFj/QqFbM2yCWkMSo1PjfafIflIMg5B8HPgYtPYqwpow/KY3r dp8C+enNM4bPpYUUZ1ahY895kOGhiqtjRWuoAooHGe8sJMD+2GnjVwwq9eBlMpE9VvTK VCxGrBwAJ3Q2hT/yqxUd0KMmD7LCjmlAPZCTATi+ErocSaa3ZKk4cMdGCASLg+Fgdy9K kiMgClGPmGgnI323UAwEsOvZaClj5eqqKfA6tZq7/4cidh1TjOHhG+zGfXFzEP5AJ7HJ SItg48N9NkLLX04THlEoGXMyWRvuDgh6flX8SO1gq3ySdu/Tr+juTtqqD2H4sEJvut0G katQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530bbiQH61ydxPhQ8D+QdXrpkVL3HXbGb1/q+wk6XsQBrRiZLYfJ z5VWXzCYU1Q6BMfKviaYGpQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzaTDFEMAyLm99mFN7+OBBV4v5SUsa+zQoEgX8PUmX1xrthuIMCiYXO03XQpbIB3DsVFC2ZYw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b5d9:: with SMTP id g25mr7013075ljn.335.1599584986747; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (178-55-224-121.bb.dnainternet.fi. [178.55.224.121]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x17sm47130lja.10.2020.09.08.10.09.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.6\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 20:09:42 +0300 Cc: David Collier-Brown , Ken Rice , bloat , Anthony Minessale II Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FD03007-9D6F-4110-858D-0A75834DA580@gmail.com> References: <87k0x6os8t.fsf@toke.dk> <1916fe37-04f5-137b-0ec5-a82fa9c3898e@indexexchange.com> <727bcf44-e3b5-f6ff-3063-e8b080dfb6e1@rogers.com> To: Matt Mathis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.6) Subject: Re: [Bloat] How about a topical LWN article on demonstrating the real-world goodness of CAKE? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 17:09:48 -0000 > On 8 Sep, 2020, at 7:48 pm, Matt Mathis via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > To be simplistic, you might just talk about cake vs (bloated) drop = tail. To be thorough, you also need to make the case that cake is = better than other AQMs. This feels like too much for LWN, but silence = on other solutions might trigger skeptics. Personally, my position is: 1: Bloated dumb FIFOs are terrible. 2: Basic AQM is good. This can be as simple as TBF+WRED; it solves a = large part of the basic problem by eliminating multi-second queue = delays. In some cases this can solve very serious problems, such as DNS = lookups failing when the link is loaded, quite adequately. Properly = configured, you can keep queue delays below the 100ms threshold for = reasonable VoIP performance. 3: FQ-AQM is better. That generally means HTB+fq_codel, but other forms = of this exist. It means essentially zero added delay for non-saturating = flows. It's an easy way to make DNS, VoIP and online gaming work nicely = without having to restrict data-hungry applications. 4: Cake offers some extra tools and aims to be easier (more intuitive) = to configure. Currently, it is the best solution for slow and = medium-speed broadband (up to 100Mbps), and can also be used at higher = speeds with some care, mostly regarding device performance. - Jonathan Morton