From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C5FB3CB39; Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EE4B21B252; Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:54:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com EE4B21B252 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1679856877; bh=e1zhHda7E+5KKu4xV446j3oyxgBxZ/XHDhZkkALKXgU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=SGdbmg0H2DBvVGO8KAzDobRVz8yspYa8eBXQP28Dva4eeHiYw1guDTJt7RQfDZ7us 9AAbGij4Ku930wqhYsl227n5ITpNCUQL3FV3XKtVUkQzmQut1tRKi97YLKkyw8RUSH gluWCoVZUbMTR9rurHjSxbzUT2jIy/abrh7S+j+0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2023 11:54:36 -0700 From: rjmcmahon To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: Nathan Owens , Rpm , dan , Frantisek Borsik , Bruce Perens , libreqos , Dave Taht via Starlink , bloat In-Reply-To: <8066EBB0-3255-403A-BA06-93E3FB6214AF@cable.comcast.com> References: <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> <20230321001019.GA4531@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> <4295238B-FA57-49B6-B57B-78FFB2603B90@gmx.de> <8301258b8fffa18bd14279bff043dd03@rjmcmahon.com> <43bcbc338aecb44a1bef49489ab6f9c8@rjmcmahon.com> <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> <9edd011a1a6615470b34e0837896a15f@rjmcmahon.com> <0551d5fe-e1be-48c8-be36-c4800a12e5de@rjmcmahon.com> <8f7d92bd-3b35-4726-b733-978b322713ad@rjmcmahon.com> <8066EBB0-3255-403A-BA06-93E3FB6214AF@cable.comcast.com> Message-ID: <0dadf6ca4d181adae67c9028d9445d42@rjmcmahon.com> X-Sender: rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2023 18:54:38 -0000 Thanks for this. Yeah, I can understand MDUs are complex and present unique issues for both their Boards and companies to service them. Condo trusts, LLC non profits, co-ops, etc. Too many attorneys to boot. My attorney fees cost more than my training youth to install FiWi infra. The expensive, existing cos are asking $80K per building. The fire alarm installer is asking $100K per building. I figure we can get both for less than $180K but it's going to take some figuring out. And once we sink the money, it needs to be world-class with swappable parts. Others may then notice and follow suit. Then for dark fiber to a private colo about 1.5 miles away the ask is $5K per month. Buy my own switch and SFPs. Peering and ISP services are not included. So I do see the value Comcast brings. I think a challenge is that different options are needed for different customers. That's why I think pluggable optics, serdes and cmos radios are critical to the design for when we eventually go full fiber & wireless for the last meters. Bob > Happy to help (you can ping me off-list). The main products are DOCSIS > and PON these days and it kind of depends where you are, whether it is > a new build, etc. As others said, it gets super complicated in MDUs > and the infrastructure in place and the building agreements vary quite > a bit. > > Jason > > From: Bloat on behalf of Nathan > Owens via Bloat > Reply-To: Nathan Owens > Date: Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 09:07 > To: Robert McMahon > Cc: Rpm , dan , > Frantisek Borsik , Bruce Perens > , libreqos , Dave > Taht via Starlink , bloat > > Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure > w/Comcast chat > > Comcast's 6Gbps service is a niche product with probably <1000 > customers. It requires knowledge and persistence from the customer to > actually get it installed, a process that can take many months (It's > basically MetroE). It requires you to be within 1760ft of available > fiber, with some limit on install cost if trenching is required. In > some cases, you may be able to trench yourself, or cover some of the > costs (usually thousands to tens of thousands). > > On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 5:04 PM Robert McMahon via Bloat > wrote: > >> The primary cost is the optics. That's why they're p in sfp and pay >> go >> >> Bob >> >> On Mar 25, 2023, at 4:35 PM, David Lang wrote: >> >> On Sat, 25 Mar 2023, Robert McMahon via Bloat wrote: >> >> The fiber has basically infinite capacity. >> >> in theory, but once you start aggregating it and having to pay for >> equipment >> that can handle the rates, your 'infinite capaicty' starts to run >> out really >> fast. >> >> David Lang >> >> ------------------------- >> >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat [1] > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat [1] > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EOSY1k9O_PBuVuNNoTVKtyE8K5P8zDDQD-_ns2m_whJemleFOcMrd25veZFZqbIvJ292Ut9e47Owc0kkGpayyP8rW_bkOQ$