From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-087-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.87]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C512E02E9 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2011 18:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-01-ewr.mailhop.org (scanner [10.0.141.223]) by mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6396D7E5726 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 02:50:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 64.59.134.9 Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283977E56BF for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2011 02:50:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pd6ml3no-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.153.149]) by pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2011 19:50:51 -0700 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=cUTwMia+6fMZF7bjUHU44PO5dfBASsAn9IQPzcMrg/g= c=1 sm=1 a=VTUP8yi54EUA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=EvaGpPYFoCfc2jwbaD6Azw==:17 a=ffKXSLAOAAAA:8 a=3dZX8JWgAAAA:8 a=F1f4aVYuAAAA:8 a=KLR-OmY6AAAA:8 a=b7SLfKwVAAAA:8 a=8O1RuQ7N3obd3pMAehMA:9 a=e6YN_h1veWVauDK1QZoA:7 a=pEK5LgPENXbNoO3m-chzrz67MjgA:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Fw8iwiUKpeAA:10 a=dUX1VVDFiw0A:10 a=Am7Z19ap4HQA:10 a=TphoKWqS9HQA:10 a=yrIDzSepPCz0Xj50:21 a=A_4ByQ6fBcTcbfRS:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO amd.pacdat.net) ([96.48.77.169]) by pd6ml3no-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2011 19:50:51 -0700 Received: from localhost ([::1]) by amd.pacdat.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Plui5-0003mV-NN; Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:50:50 -0800 From: richard To: Dave =?ISO-8859-1?Q?T=E4ht?= In-Reply-To: <877hddhouj.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> References: <20110205132305.GA29396@thyrsus.com> <1296935338.12017.60.camel@amd.pacdat.net> <8739o2i115.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> <1296955777.32487.42.camel@amd.pacdat.net> <877hddhouj.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 18:50:45 -0800 Message-Id: <1296960645.32487.54.camel@amd.pacdat.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 (2.26.3-1.fc11) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] First draft of complete "Bufferbloat And You" enclosed. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 02:50:57 -0000 Back in 1996, shortly after iStar (Canada's first national ISP) bought our Wimsey.COM regional, I got a chance to speak in front of a bunch of people who were both customers and suppliers of the long distance backbone (alternative) supplier that had spawned iStar. As the lone internet speaker of the 3 keynotes, I talked about the future, including things like $0.01/minute long distance using VOIP and such. Got my hand slapped hard right after and never got the opportunity to speak for that company in public again. The company has gone bust. Telus - the local ILEC here, has been using VOIP technology for their long distance trunks for the past 10+ years - a leader in the technology and the dominant in the field other than Bell here. The next company my buddies and I formed did a bunch of stuff that included ATM interface equipment and add/drop multiplexers, etc., all to interface to IP. Lately I have not heard much about ATM - seems to have pretty much disappeared it seems :) I lived this fight - from being told we could no longer use metered phone lines for our modems, through being screwed over using Centrex lines, US Robotics modems velcro'd on the wall, all of it. I even started out climbing telephone poles and installing Strouger (electro-mechanical) phone switches back in the late 60's - as the sig on Slashdot says - "been there, done that..." :) richard On Sat, 2011-02-05 at 19:35 -0700, Dave T=C3=A4ht wrote: > richard writes: >=20 > > If you believe the telcos, it was (and still should be) as that was the > > way things like T1s and T3s and ATM all worked. >=20 > http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.10/atm_pr.html >=20 > On the self-similar nature of the internet debate, I'd like to see a > paper on, until then, repeating this study sounds interesting: >=20 > http://eeweb.poly.edu/el933/papers/Willinger.pdf >=20 > The plots they have of traffic are rather different that what I've been > seeing lately. >=20 --=20 Richard C. Pitt Pacific Data Capture rcpitt@pacdat.net 604-644-9265 http://digital-rag.com www.pacdat.net PGP Fingerprint: FCEF 167D 151B 64C4 3333 57F0 4F18 AF98 9F59 DD73