From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-31-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-210-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.210]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFE92E04AC for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-31-ewr.mailhop.org (scan-31-ewr.local [10.0.141.237]) by mail-31-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7FB6FA267 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 19:52:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 64.59.134.9 Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mail-31-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A8B6F9120 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 19:52:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pd7ml3no-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.153.150]) by pd5mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2011 12:52:33 -0700 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=H95gfW32JB/XYJSBuOTvJ8IIviFcsPdfxXHbM7LS6jM= c=1 sm=1 a=VTUP8yi54EUA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=EvaGpPYFoCfc2jwbaD6Azw==:17 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=3dZX8JWgAAAA:8 a=b7SLfKwVAAAA:8 a=r77s5qaB4ObGcWXdGxkA:9 a=XdN2ppcViv3lPGI1zSjMLqlx0e8A:4 a=Fw8iwiUKpeAA:10 a=TphoKWqS9HQA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO amd.pacdat.net) ([96.48.77.169]) by pd7ml3no-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 08 Feb 2011 12:52:33 -0700 Received: from localhost ([::1]) by amd.pacdat.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Pmtby-0004am-MV; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:52:32 -0800 From: richard To: Juliusz Chroboczek In-Reply-To: <7ilj1qcnxs.fsf@lanthane.pps.jussieu.fr> References: <20110205132305.GA29396@thyrsus.com> <7ilj1qcnxs.fsf@lanthane.pps.jussieu.fr> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:52:30 -0800 Message-Id: <1297194750.11917.3.camel@amd.pacdat.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 (2.26.3-1.fc11) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] First draft of complete "Bufferbloat And You" enclosed. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:52:40 -0000 On Tue, 2011-02-08 at 20:43 +0100, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > > If too many cars try to use the road at once, bad things happen. One > > of those bad things is cars running off the road and crashing. The > > Internet analog of this is called 'packet loss'. We want to hold it to > > a minimum. > > I object to that, since it compares packet loss to a catastrophic > failure. (I would personally argue against a car analogy in the first > place, but that's just stylistic preference.) > This bothers me too. You almost have to inject a "MacGuffin" in the form of a magic transporter at the entrance to all parking lots such that any car that does not fit gets magically transported back to its origination to try again - packet loss and retry - not catastrophic but very much a penalty. > > Suppose your rule for when a car gets to leave the parking lot is the > > simplest possible: it fills up until it overflows, then cars are let > > out the downstream side as fast as they can go. > > I'm not sure what kind of buffer you're trying to illustrate. That's > certainly not how I understand tail-drop buffers. > > Finally, I'd argue that you're being too harsh on QoS techniques. > > --Juliusz > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat -- Richard C. Pitt Pacific Data Capture rcpitt@pacdat.net 604-644-9265 http://digital-rag.com www.pacdat.net PGP Fingerprint: FCEF 167D 151B 64C4 3333 57F0 4F18 AF98 9F59 DD73