From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm5-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm5-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.165]) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D58C21F3AA for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 02:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [98.138.100.116] by nm5.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2014 09:18:41 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.166] by tm107.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2014 09:18:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1067.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Aug 2014 09:18:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 150969.2382.bm@omp1067.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 61509 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Aug 2014 09:18:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1408958321; bh=/gScbBUEj/lBOsORnu/1XtOJAuGy/WBiXoddtD+3Ouk=; h=References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=cffZ6NCOt8I+OeM3AVXmpuoC4p0GQIf4YMNQRVnWAynuNf8gwIkZY1CK5N5B0mFhpxSnXoTJIE+QxCSgTN/HWdZGwTjKNP+Bs7kopxWzD5+au76ApeOt8fazdos6UmGth0ZqWkGZbr2kymB3ZXc4AMXAxyABv11rRtDxfXeh01Y= X-YMail-OSG: KOFOlvoVM1k9_Pjy4uM.3Yc1EoV_0aBVp8fKDk7smbvrelC AxqJVA6IOOuqLb2B4dW.GWtYzrjS.LiWlA_Sa7TWLDQHNFAN2wk9b8SIkkbz TQ4Wltt8h7Qd1JZ_ALvhO4WSCve4m.Lpxv2QzGPj1ELJOSSO9N7JfLNq.7pM dnOYICmsxEGo0hUwzqweyDxYRtasB0FElrMGqk2kETb.kQnkJyiYrIJOYaVB nU2EXJdLspRqMYSioZAjCa04ro3grRYA7dmqZE5v__nHaISU0nBi_W_p6uvg sz2VN9ZkCikh9KmtFocEPj.NsC5Cs2rGaNsaDwWecgs03S_aaLTIrOZ8rYO4 qrBkmXwAXjRs39upq63o6JbeVCCXEVtE9xzZmEJYpMoUHdrL5ydOxWzl8inm dRYHKeHHmOYna3275gSrgxF793mVswbAYDN8BRFRCtyB6f7O6.WXv74mpTkI yVX.luGoSUMhobTZEkxizgcZztYgtKa.LzqMwom6UXGtKcnwgo3LZeOJPahX vPW0wYeE6fkx0hQFnEUFZDzW1oOlS0iYWTYIukN.pW.3EcvinDQ5n Received: from [130.43.174.33] by web122502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 02:18:41 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, CgoKCgo.IE9uIE1vbmRheSwgQXVndXN0IDI1LCAyMDE0IDk6MzQgQU0sIE1pY2hhZWwgV2VsemwgPG1pY2hhd2VAaWZpLnVpby5ubz4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiAKPiBPbiAyNS4gYXVnLiAyMDE0LCBhdCAxMDoxOSwgU2ViYXN0aWFuIE1vZWxsZXIgd3JvdGU6Cj4gCj4.ICDCoMKgwqAgV2hhdCBhYm91dCBmcmFtaW5nIHRoZSByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbnMgbm90IGluIG51bWJlciBidXQgcmF0aGVyIGluIAo.IHRpbWU_IEZvciBleGFtcGxlIHRoZSBtYXhpbXVtIG9mIGVpdGhlciB0aW1lIHRvIHRyYW5zbWl0IGEgZmUBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.201.700 References: <91696A3A-EF44-4A1A-8070-D3AF25D0D9AC@netapp.com> <64CD1035-2E14-4CA6-8E90-C892BAD48EC6@netapp.com> <4C1661D0-32C6-48E7-BAE6-60C98D7B2D69@ifi.uio.no> <8C18A920-D0A8-4052-85EC-FF6D6039FD53@ifi.uio.no> Message-ID: <1408958321.57058.YahooMailNeo@web122502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 02:18:41 -0700 From: Alex Burr To: Michael Welzl , Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] sigcomm wifi X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Alex Burr List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0000 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A> On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:34 AM, Michael Welzl wrote:=0A> > =0A> On 25. aug. 2014, at 10:19, Sebastian Moelle= r wrote:=0A> =0A>> =A0=A0=A0 What about framing the retransmissions not in= number but rather in =0A> time? For example the maximum of either time to = transmit a few (say 3?) packet =0A> at the current data rate (or maybe one = rate lower than current to allow =0A> setoriating signal quality) or 20ms (= pulled out of thin air, would need some =0A> research). The first should ma= ke sure we actually retransmit to overcome =0A> glitches, and the second sh= ould make sure that RTT does not increase to =0A> dramatically. This basica= lly assumes that for reasonable interactive traffic we =0A> only have a giv= en RTT budget and should make sure not to overspend ;)=0A> =0A> That would = be VERY good I think!!!!=0A=0AI agree.=0A=0AA third reason for link-layer r= etransmission is to prevent glitches in video/audio=0Astreams which aren't = run over TCP and won't retransmit themselves. (This was basically=0Athe rea= son link-layer retransmission got added to DSL, because telco's =A0were kee= n that=0Atheir bundled TV didn't have glitches - in this case, due to noise= , rather than collisions).=0AThis is also very consistent with the idea of = only retransmitting within a short period.=0A=0AAlex