From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from vsmta11-2.nsc.no (vip22scan.telenor.net [148.123.15.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BC043BA8E for ; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 04:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [153.110.251.167] ([153.110.251.167:36603] helo=ilp-smtp01.man.cosng.net) by vsmta11-2.nsc.no (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.22.53981 r(Core:3.6.22.0)) with ESMTPS (cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 63/15-18872-A178CD95; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:38:50 +0200 Received: from TNS-SKO-24-202.corp.telenor.no (TNS-SKO-24-202.corp.telenor.no [10.179.59.70]) by ilp-smtp01.man.cosng.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23522029B; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:38:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from TNS-SKO-24-208.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.76) by TNS-SKO-24-202.corp.telenor.no (10.179.59.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:38:50 +0200 Received: from TNS-SKO-24-208.corp.telenor.no ([fe80::b024:7a41:ba33:25b6]) by TNS-SKO-24-208.corp.telenor.no ([fe80::b024:7a41:ba33:25b6%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Tue, 10 Oct 2017 10:38:50 +0200 From: To: CC: , Thread-Topic: [Bloat] emulating non-duplex media in linux qdiscs Thread-Index: AQHTQR8XRxQVosPuF0OG5PDP9gEiR6LcvDta Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:38:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1507624730253.7735@telenor.com> References: <1507534912438.44276@telenor.com>,<87376s6z5z.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> In-Reply-To: <87376s6z5z.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> Accept-Language: nb-NO, en-US Content-Language: nb-NO X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.181.50.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SCAN_VERDICT: inbox Subject: Re: [Bloat] emulating non-duplex media in linux qdiscs X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:38:53 -0000 > wifi is not p2p, all data is broadcast to many potential recievers,=0A= > only one can transmit at one time.=0A= =0A= On the radio level that is true for the time being. That may change with 8= 02.11ax, as MU-MIMO is set up to get an multiple sender version. OFDMA I b= elieve.=0A= =0A= =0A= > Saying that is half duplex, doesn't work for me. In their example of=0A= > "half duplex", (using push to talk), it still means that everybody on=0A= > that channel hears who is talking. "half duplex" to me, given the=0A= > definition of duplex, means more that there is a *p2p* channel (a wire),= =0A= > that you can ping pong data across.=0A= =0A= Well, as Mikael stated as well, half duplex has been used on shared medium = in the ethernet world since it's inception. As you state it does not match= 100% with the wikipedia definition, but the tradition is there.=0A= =0A= =0A= > This conflation of ideas has always bugged me and I've longed to find=0A= > another word that more accurately describes what happens, therefore=0A= > I've been saying "non-duplex".=0A= =0A= Given your distaste for the term half duplex, and the coming advances in .1= 1ax which further confuses the issue, there may be a real need for a better= term. How about starting with a description of the transmission propertie= s and making a set of terms? Shared medium, single sender, multiple recive= rs. (current mu-mimo wifi). Shared medium multiple sender, multiple receiv= ers. (OFDMA 802.11ax if they get it working). Shared medium entails coordi= nated action. Sender/receiver description also encapsulates that there is = different behavior in the different direction in the air. =0A= =0A= =0A= > > Simplex is one way communication like traditional AM radio.=0A= >=0A= > wifi/lte are not very similar similar to AM radio.=0A= =0A= Which was my point. :) Simplex seems to be a non applicable term here.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= -Erik=