From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp80.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp80.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A0D63B2A4 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E3EA822F6A; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTPDoctor-Processed: csmtpprox beta Received: from smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DC73124C2E; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from app30.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B3D3022F6A; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@deepplum.com Received: from app30.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app30.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC96E004A; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:32:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "David P. Reed" To: "Dave Taht" Cc: "cerowrt-devel" , "bloat" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20190328143204000000_90232" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: <1553796961.229623922@apps.rackspace.com> Message-ID: <1553797924.63225811@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/16.2.2-RC Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] plenty of huawei in the news today X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 18:32:05 -0000 ------=_20190328143204000000_90232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0ALook, the existence of security flaws in software isn't news. Real news = would be if there were systems discovered to have no flaws at all...=0A =0A= So what does this article really say? =0A =0AIt says that Britain and the U= S intelligence officials are now going after Huawei in a new way, because t= he idea that Huawei just steals intellectual property no longer flies - the= y actually have great technology that the non-Chinese never had.=0A =0AAnd = there is a massive Trade War currently aimed between Trump and China.=0A = =0AAnd recently, the UK, including GCHQ, said it was NOT going to stop plan= s to deploy Huawei telecom gear, because it saw no particular flaws worth w= orrying about if UK operators wanted to use Huawei "5G" gear because it was= better and cheaper.=0A =0AYou can see, of course, that the US diplomatic e= fforts under Pompeo might go into high gear to get some kind of supportive = public response from somewhere in the UK, even if the UK government itself = wasn't going to support the US.=0A =0AHence, the PR guys figured out how to= get a story into the NYTimes and other papers that appears to contradict t= he UK decision. =0A =0AThis is how the game is played.=0A =0AThis is how Tr= ade Wars are conducted (we haven't seen them for decades, so we aren't used= to them, but we had the big fearmongering about Japan back in the '80's th= at was similar, and the Japanese "lead" with its "Fifth Generation Computin= g" effort required major tax dollars to protect the US from becoming a thir= d world country)=0A =0AHumans don't think. They react emotionally, and trib= ally.=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: "Dave Taht" =0ASent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 2:16pm=0ATo: "David P. Reed" =0ACc: "cerowrt-devel" ,= "bloat" =0ASubject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] plent= y of huawei in the news today=0A=0A=0A=0AWell, it's a widely placed story i= n every newspaper.=0A=0AOn Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:16 AM David P. Reed wrote:=0A>=0A> The NYTimes has become a mouthpiece for th= ose who want to see China as the new evil empire. Recent pieces by David Sa= nger have hyped the idea that the US has a "5G Gap" and that China (Huawei)= will threaten to conquer the world with 5G superiority, so we should be vi= gilantly opposing Huawei.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Worth noting that Cisco, ALU, ...= are not any better than Huawei appears to be in these matters. But they ar= en't getting headlines in the NYTimes.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Remember, Judith Mil= ler wrote NYTimes headlines based on "leaks from senior intelligence offici= als" that Saddam Hussein was on the verge of deploying dirty bombs, nuclear= missiles and biowarfare agents.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Recently, Bloomberg got sc= ammed by "leaks from senior intelligence officials" that Supermicro (Chines= e) had built and sold server motherboards that had special chips soldered i= nto them that didn't belong there [the stories were completely debunked by = the companies supposedly targeted].=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Personally, I think the= cynical fearmongering here does the legitimate security engineering commun= ity no good at all. It's just more "wag the dog" psyops, designed to let al= l the pseudo-security-experts take over the story and get their 15 minutes = in the headlines.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> The Qualcomms and Ciscos of the US are ha= ppy to get the USG to help scare countries off of Chinese brandnames. But t= he open secret is that Qualcomm and Cisco's systems are designed and made i= n China, too. There's no US manufacturing of switches, and precious few ent= irely American hardware design centers, either.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> So be a lit= tle skeptical. Check the story behind the story. Don't believe stories base= d on "intelligence agency" leaks.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> -----Original Message----= -=0A> From: "Dave Taht" =0A> Sent: Thursday, March 28,= 2019 1:55pm=0A> To: "cerowrt-devel" ,= "bloat" =0A> Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] plenty = of huawei in the news today=0A>=0A> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/tech= nology/huawei-security-british-report.html=0A>=0A> --=0A>=0A> Dave T=C3=A4h= t=0A> CTO, TekLibre, LLC=0A> http://www.teklibre.com=0A> Tel: 1-831-205-974= 0=0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Cerowrt-devel mai= ling list=0A> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://lists.bufferb= loat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel=0A=0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0ADave T=C3=A4ht=0ACTO, T= ekLibre, LLC=0Ahttp://www.teklibre.com=0ATel: 1-831-205-9740 ------=_20190328143204000000_90232 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Look, the existence of= security flaws in software isn't news. Real news would be if there were sy= stems discovered to have no flaws at all...

=0A

&nbs= p;

=0A

So what does this article really say? =0A

 

=0A

It says that Br= itain and the US intelligence officials are now going after Huawei in a new= way, because the idea that Huawei just steals intellectual property no lon= ger flies - they actually have great technology that the non-Chinese never = had.

=0A

 

=0A

And there= is a massive Trade War currently aimed between Trump and China.

=0A

 

=0A

And recently, the UK, in= cluding GCHQ, said it was NOT going to stop plans to deploy Huawei telecom = gear, because it saw no particular flaws worth worrying about if UK operato= rs wanted to use Huawei "5G" gear because it was better and cheaper.

=0A=

 

=0A

You can see, of cour= se, that the US diplomatic efforts under Pompeo might go into high gear to = get some kind of supportive public response from somewhere in the UK, even = if the UK government itself wasn't going to support the US.

=0A

 

=0A

Hence, the PR guys figured o= ut how to get a story into the NYTimes and other papers that appears to con= tradict the UK decision. 

=0A

 

=0A

This is how the game is played.

=0A

 

=0A

This is how Trade Wars are conducted (we= haven't seen them for decades, so we aren't used to them, but we had the b= ig fearmongering about Japan back in the '80's that was similar, and the Ja= panese "lead" with its "Fifth Generation Computing" effort required major t= ax dollars to protect the US from becoming a third world country)

=0A

 

=0A

Humans don't think. The= y react emotionally, and tribally.

=0A

 

=0A=

-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <= dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 2:16pm
To:= "David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com>
Cc: "cerowrt-devel" <c= erowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "bloat" <bloat@lists.bufferbloat= .net>
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] plenty of huawei in the news tod= ay

=0A
=0A

Well, it's a widely placed story in every newspaper.

On Thu, = Mar 28, 2019 at 11:16 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:>
> The NYTimes has become a mouthpiece for those who want t= o see China as the new evil empire. Recent pieces by David Sanger have hype= d the idea that the US has a "5G Gap" and that China (Huawei) will threaten= to conquer the world with 5G superiority, so we should be vigilantly oppos= ing Huawei.
>
>
>
> Worth noting that Cisco= , ALU, ... are not any better than Huawei appears to be in these matters. B= ut they aren't getting headlines in the NYTimes.
>
>
&= gt;
> Remember, Judith Miller wrote NYTimes headlines based on "lea= ks from senior intelligence officials" that Saddam Hussein was on the verge= of deploying dirty bombs, nuclear missiles and biowarfare agents.
>= ;
>
>
> Recently, Bloomberg got scammed by "leaks f= rom senior intelligence officials" that Supermicro (Chinese) had built and = sold server motherboards that had special chips soldered into them that did= n't belong there [the stories were completely debunked by the companies sup= posedly targeted].
>
>
>
> Personally, I th= ink the cynical fearmongering here does the legitimate security engineering= community no good at all. It's just more "wag the dog" psyops, designed to= let all the pseudo-security-experts take over the story and get their 15 m= inutes in the headlines.
>
>
>
> The Qualco= mms and Ciscos of the US are happy to get the USG to help scare countries o= ff of Chinese brandnames. But the open secret is that Qualcomm and Cisco's = systems are designed and made in China, too. There's no US manufacturing of= switches, and precious few entirely American hardware design centers, eith= er.
>
>
>
> So be a little skeptical. Check= the story behind the story. Don't believe stories based on "intelligence a= gency" leaks.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message= -----
> From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> Sen= t: Thursday, March 28, 2019 1:55pm
> To: "cerowrt-devel" <cerowr= t-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "bloat" <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net&= gt;
> Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] plenty of huawei in the news today>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/technology/huawei-sec= urity-british-report.html
>
> --
>
> Dave T= =C3=A4ht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> ______________________________________= _________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@list= s.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-= devel



--

Dave T=C3=A4ht
CTO, TekLib= re, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

=0A
<= /font> ------=_20190328143204000000_90232--