From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp100.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp100.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B52D13CB35 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:28:35 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=g001.emailsrvr.com; s=20190322-9u7zjiwi; t=1585088915; bh=PykvNIZRdIbVkMB+qATUmSj6V9MrKRD+y8j9uKpAsX8=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:From; b=Stqj9IzpTrhrHxDVQJEYo0sRJeRSfFFnfETritPsIMMMKRkF/1ryOhtdo6X11C4wj fuVeiaseqmOZWALyA33rNDpBpjRzsxAuUFT+nZY22lJJsjKgAD1NMGQJDhJ58zkCa/ iAzhND9HLyG1n5TEgjCE71JHxH8wKEM6JN25xFng= Received: from app58.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp13.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6184356EE; Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:28:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@deepplum.com Received: from app58.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:28:35 -0400 Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app58.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6172011E; Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:28:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 18:28:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "David P. Reed" To: "Colin Dearborn" Cc: "Rich Brown" , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: plain In-Reply-To: References: <54620DA1-1B6B-456E-990E-3C99B6779887@gmx.de> <6C32AF17-015D-4771-8051-17BF1938C22C@gmail.com>, <1584912664.72374374@apps.rackspace.com> Message-ID: <1585088915.30981517@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/17.3.2-RC X-Classification-ID: 77388218-5bfc-4ac1-871d-2573d15a7b20-1-1 Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] OT: Netflix vs 6in4 from HE.net X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:28:35 -0000 Thanks, Colin, for the info. Sadly, I learned all about the licensing of co= ntent in the industry back about 20 years ago when I was active in the batt= les about Xcasting rights internationally (extending "broadcast rights" to = the Web, which are rights that exist only in the EU, having to do with prot= ecting broadcasters whose signals are powerful enough to cross borders of c= ountries, so a whole new, non-copyright-based Intellectual Property Right w= as invented. WIPO wanted to argue that the Web was just like broadcasting a= cross borders, so web pages should be burdened by Xcasting rights, along wi= th all other copyrighted things.)=0A=0AWhat I wanted to know was exactly wh= at you just said in passing: that he.net's address space was entirely block= ed by Netflix because it wasn't accurately geolocated for "region restricti= on" enforcement.=0A=0AWhether I think that is "correct" or "reasonable", I = just want to be able to get Netflix in my US house. Not to be any sort of "= pirate" intentionally trying to break the license. I really just want that = stuff to work as the license between Netflix and content provider requires = (I'm sure the license doesn't say "block he.net").=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, Marc= h 24, 2020 11:11am, "Colin Dearborn" said:=0A=0A> = HE IPv6 space has been tagged as a vpn type service by Netflix, since it ha= s users=0A> all over the world, but it's space is all geolocated in the US.= If HE had=0A> geolocated the blocks of each POP to the country the POP res= ided in, and put some=0A> rules around geolocation of using each POP (IE Ca= nadian residents can only use=0A> Canadian POPs) this could have been avoid= ed, but it also would have been a large=0A> amount of work on HE's side jus= t to make geolocation accurate-ish.=0A> =0A> Fortunately, my ISP got IPv6 w= orking natively shortly after Netflix started=0A> blocking HE's space, so I= didn't have to suffer for too long (but lost my US=0A> netflix.)=0A> =0A> = Content licensing is a very complex thing. While you might believe that you= r=0A> subscription equals the license, in reality the license is the agreem= ent between=0A> Netflix and the content providers. Content providers put st= rict geolocation rules=0A> of where content can be played on Netflix, and N= etflix can be sued by them if it=0A> appears that they're not doing enough = to protect these rules. This is to protect=0A> the value of the content pro= viders content, when they sell it to someone other=0A> than Netflix, or sta= rt their own streaming service. For example, in Canada, we=0A> have a stre= aming service called Crave. There's a lot of content on there that=0A> woul= d be available to Netflix in the States, so if Netflix didn't properly adhe= re=0A> to geolocation rules, Crave could legitimately either sue Netflix di= rectly, or get=0A> the content provider to do it for them (again, depending= on the licensing=0A> agreement).=0A> This is why when you travel, you get = the local Netflix content, not the content of=0A> the country where you pay= the subscription.=0A> =0A> Your option of using a cloud server may work. := )=0A> =0A> =0A> This might turn out to be a problem for me - I have a "smar= t TV" that I watch=0A> Netflix on, and it appears to use IPv4. What specifi= cally triggers Netflix to=0A> reject specific IPv6 clients? Is it the playe= r's IPv6 address? Is all of he.net's=0A> address space blocked?=0A> =0A> I'= ve been planning to move more of my home networks to routed IPv6.=0A> =0A> = In principle, Netflix as a business shouldn't care - it's just doing its be= st=0A> efforts to protect its content's licensing requirements. So if I'm a= ctually in the=0A> US, and my net claims correctly to be in US (by whatever= trickery I use), neither=0A> Netflix nor I am violating any license from a= legal point of view.=0A> =0A> So all I need to do would be to get a legit = US IPv6 address (I have one /64 on a=0A> public cloud server), and tunnel i= t to my house and give it to my TV. Not ideal,=0A> but until Netflix does i= ts geofencing *correctly* according to the license, rather=0A> than accordi= ng to IP address, I'd say it's a proper thing.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> On Saturd= ay, March 21, 2020 8:47pm, "Rich Brown" said:=0A>= =0A>> I love knowing smart people.=0A>>=0A>> Yes, it does appear to be Ne= tflix geo-fencing their services. Given that I only=0A>> watch Netflix on o= ne computer, I am taking Sebastian's advice and turning off=0A>> IPv6=0A>> = DNS queries in Firefox.=0A>>=0A>> Thanks again for these responses.=0A>>=0A= >> Rich=0A>>=0A>>> On Mar 21, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Sebastian Moeller wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> Hi Rich,=0A>>>=0A>>> since it seems to be IPv6 = related, why not use firefox for netflix and disable=0A>>> IPv6 in firefox = (see=0A>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-cant-load-websites-= other-browsers-can#w_ipv6)=0A>>> maybe that works well enough?=0A>>>=0A>>> = Best Regards=0A>>> Sebastian=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>> On Mar 21,= 2020, at 21:20, Rich Brown wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>> = to Bloat & CeroWrt folks: This is a little OT for either of these lists, bu= t I=0A>>>> figured there are plenty of experts here, and I would be delight= ed to get your=0A>>>> thoughts.=0A>>>>=0A>>>> I just tried to view a Netfli= x movie and got a F7111-5059 error message. This=0A>>>> prevented the video= from playing. (As recently as a month or two ago, it=0A>>>> worked=0A>>>> = fine.)=0A>>>>=0A>>>> Googling the error message gets to this page=0A>>>> ht= tps://help.netflix.com/en/node/54085 that singles out use of an IPv6 Proxy= =0A>>>> Tunnel.=0A>>>>=0A>>>> Sure enough, I'm have a 6in4 tunnel through H= urricane Electric on WAN6.=0A>>>> Stopping=0A>>>> that WAN6 interface cause= d Netflix to work.=0A>>>>=0A>>>> What advice could you offer? (I could, of = course, turn off WAN6 to watch=0A>>>> movies.=0A>>>> But that's a drag, and= other family members couldn't do this.) Many thanks.=0A>>>>=0A>>>> Rich=0A= >>>> _______________________________________________=0A>>>> Bloat mailing l= ist=0A>>>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net= /listinfo/bloat=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>> ___________________________________________= ____=0A>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list=0A>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.n= et=0A>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel=0A>>=0A> =0A> = =0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Bloat mailing list= =0A> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo= /bloat=0A> =0A