From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp112.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp112.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3044A3CB35 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:45:05 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=g001.emailsrvr.com; s=20190322-9u7zjiwi; t=1612903504; bh=7wNNSR98JltjGDD1+Qkj6RFILPgFjckNrUSnOrI/wZQ=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:From; b=m8Xm7cqwJh1IzasWRfkKfKEiHdcDKo7smYj8kgUVnVkxt31agk3AwmBBi4yNQeqX1 UJOBKQqqNx9/OdqgSSWIv1JRU7VOK4TVV7PyMr5vUZN02LrPW9si9Z1HXvaG4ZYadi 5QtsSoDxN0hEmkvQm1tAQHDwOYQZuV/JOa1/q9ok= Received: from app22.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp31.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BCF532483E; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:45:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app22.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id A956C20039; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:45:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:45:04 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:45:04 -0500 (EST) From: "David P. Reed" To: "Dave Taht" Cc: "bloat" , "cerowrt-devel" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20210209154504000000_75237" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: X-Client-IP: 209.6.10.161 Message-ID: <1612903504.690718796@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/18.1.15-RC X-Classification-ID: 34a402c1-e6d0-4991-94dd-f517e954f483-1-1 Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] cringley rants well on bloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 20:45:05 -0000 ------=_20210209154504000000_75237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AHmmm... good post, I guess. But aren't WiFi 6 and StarLink being built b= y people who have proved their genius by being billionaires?=0A =0AIt's sad= , though, to read through the comments. There's a whole 'nother world out t= here now.=0AApparently the world of commenters are largely convinced buffer= bloat doesn't exist, and never did.=0A =0APerhaps that is our problem? We a= re hallucinating and disconnected from reality?=0A =0AI constantly hear tha= t IETF attendees don't believe it is a problem. And folks like Andy Bechtol= sheim get loads of VC money to create Ethernet 10+ GigE switches that are f= ull of buffers, therefore creating lots of lag under load in datacenters wh= ere they buy this gear because Andy is famous. AndyB's company even produce= white papers that claim more buffers improves performance by keeping all t= he links running at wirespeed (the hell with latency).=0A =0AAnd some of th= e commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that h= e "got it wrong".=0A =0AI've concluded that COVID-19 reflects a general inf= ection of brains with some kind of arrogant ignorance, including many of th= e folks who get boondoggles from their company to attend IETF.=0A =0ABut it= may be the opposite, after all. Maybe we folks don't understand what is tr= ue in this real Bizarro World, and bufferbloat is a hoax like COVID. Q is p= robably right, and we are probably all pederasts like Hillary Clinton.=0A = =0A =0AOn Monday, February 8, 2021 8:45pm, "Dave Taht" said:=0A=0A=0A=0A> https://www.cringely.com/2021/02/04/2021-prediction-4-= wifi-6-is-a-bust-for-now-as-bufferbloat-returns-thanks-to-isp-greed/=0A> = =0A> =0A> --=0A> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence= over public=0A> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard F= eynman=0A> =0A> dave@taht.net CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-83= 1-435-0729=0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Cerowrt-= devel mailing list=0A> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://list= s.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel=0A> ------=_20210209154504000000_75237 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hmmm... good post, I g= uess. But aren't WiFi 6 and StarLink being built by people who have proved = their genius by being billionaires?

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= =0A

It's sad, though, to read through the comments. The= re's a whole 'nother world out there now.

=0A

Appare= ntly the world of commenters are largely convinced bufferbloat doesn't exis= t, and never did.

=0A

 

=0A

Perhaps that is our problem? We are hallucinating and disconnected= from reality?

=0A

 

=0A

I constantly hear that IETF attendees don't believe it is a problem. And f= olks like Andy Bechtolsheim get loads of VC money to create Ethernet 10+ Gi= gE switches that are full of buffers, therefore creating lots of lag under = load in datacenters where they buy this gear because Andy is famous. AndyB'= s company even produce white papers that claim more buffers improves perfor= mance by keeping all the links running at wirespeed (the hell with latency)= .

=0A

 

=0A

And some of = the commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that= he "got it wrong".

=0A

 

=0A

I've concluded that COVID-19 reflects a general infection of brains w= ith some kind of arrogant ignorance, including many of the folks who get bo= ondoggles from their company to attend IETF.

=0A

&nb= sp;

=0A

But it may be the opposite, after all. Maybe= we folks don't understand what is true in this real Bizarro World, and buf= ferbloat is a hoax like COVID. Q is probably right, and we are probably all= pederasts like Hillary Clinton.

=0A

 

=0A 

=0A

On Monday, February 8,= 2021 8:45pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:

= =0A
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> https://ww= w.cringely.com/2021/02/04/2021-prediction-4-wifi-6-is-a-bust-for-now-as-buf= ferbloat-returns-thanks-to-isp-greed/
>
>
> --> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over pub= lic
> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feyn= man
>
> dave@taht.net <Dave T=C3=A4ht> CTO, TekLibre= , LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> _______________________________________= ________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists= .bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-d= evel
>

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