From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp121.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp121.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 292913B2A4 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2023 23:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from app27.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp8.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8992A1C46; Mon, 26 Jun 2023 23:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app27.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5F821B92; Mon, 26 Jun 2023 23:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mobile.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jun 2023 23:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 23:41:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "David P. Reed" To: stephen@networkplumber.org Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net, cake@lists.bufferbloat.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <1687837319.447910185@mobile.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: mobile/8.0.1 X-Classification-ID: fe47097c-a53e-44f3-ac9d-52ceafac4d0e-1-1 Subject: Re: [Bloat] Two questions re high speed congestion management anddatagram protocols X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2023 03:42:00 -0000 Sorry for top posting, but ... Bigger question: Why would DCCP be deprecated by Linux kernel? Who makes that decision? Who argues against it? It's a pretty good approach to properly congestion controlling many non-TCP= communications protocols that might be implemented on UDP and lack good co= ngestion control otherwise. E.g. QUIC or RTP (for non CBR traffic) or various RPC-style protocols. Lar= ry Peterson recently wrote a piece asking why RPC wasn't well supported in = distributed computing even after almost 50 years. Lack of Conception Contro= l that works is a big issue. QUIC ain't it. QUiC is a HTTP replacement for = REST protocol sementics. So why discard a good thing that works? -----Original Message----- From: "Stephen Hemminger" Sent: Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 2:51 pm To: "David P. Reed via Bloat" Cc: "David P. Reed via Bloat" , "Cake List" <= cake@lists.bufferbloat.net> Subject: Re: [Bloat] Two questions re high speed congestion management andd= atagram protocols On Sat, 24 Jun 2023 14:41:52 -0400 (EDT) "David P. Reed via Bloat" wrote: > I also was looking back to DCCP as a useful way to get a UDP that handled= congestion without engaging the higher layers, and preserving the other fl= exibility of UDP. DCCP never got widely used, and Linux is on the path of deprecating it.