From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E460A3BA8E for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 03:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i72vorta.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.26] helo=i72vorta.tm.kit.edu) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp port 25 iface 141.3.10.81 id 1fSdqy-0003J2-L4; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:36:32 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by i72vorta.tm.kit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98CB342083A; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:36:32 +0200 (CEST) To: Matthias Tafelmeier , bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net, =?UTF-8?Q?Toke_H=c3=b8iland-J=c3=b8rgensen?= References: <87in6ohm30.fsf@toke.dk> <7adae673-d701-6fe0-1d47-524320d38583@gmx.net> From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=roland.bless@kit.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7adae673-d701-6fe0-1d47-524320d38583@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1528788992.724278572 Subject: Re: [Bloat] geoff huston's take on BBR X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:36:34 -0000 Hi, Am 12.06.2018 um 07:09 schrieb Matthias Tafelmeier: > On 06/12/2018 02:42 AM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote: >>> https://ripe76.ripe.net/presentations/10-2018-05-15-bbr.pdf >> "More research needed". Naturally ;) >> >> (But yeah, good points overall) > > Interesting. Potentially, all affectuated. After having applied the BBR > 2.0, we might are back to Cubic? :D I don't understand what you're saying. I think Geoff tested BBR v1.0. Explanations for the experienced behavior can be found in our paper http://doc.tm.kit.edu/2017-kit-icnp-bbr-authors-copy.pdf, esp. section 3. Geoff's findings in the wild nicely confirm our results that were performed in more controlled lab settings. Important is though, that you always test with multiple concurrent BBR flows... > Moreover, if it tends to be unstable on larger scale - what is Google > doing then? Thought they've got a more or less homogeneous BBR driven > TCP flow ecosystem - at least internally!? Was all propaganda? When > speculating, might working for them since of centrally handled flow > steering approaches - "imposing inter-flow fairness". There are certain situations where BBR might work well: 1) you only have a single flow at the bottleneck, might be the case in their B4 scenario 2) The senders a application limited (e.g., YouTube) 3) The bottleneck buffer is much larger than a BDP (then BDP will limit the queue size between 1 and 1.5 BDP) However, BBR has no explicit fairness mechanism, so sometimes one will see quite unfair shares for longer periods, even if there are only BBR flows present at then bottleneck. Regards Roland