From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-230-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.230]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619652E00FC for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 00:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-02-ewr.mailhop.org (scan-02-ewr.local [10.0.141.224]) by mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05357E678D for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:41:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 195.71.99.218 Received: from hydra.gt.owl.de (hydra.gt.owl.de [195.71.99.218]) by mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7691C7E6784 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:41:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by hydra.gt.owl.de (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8127F32D39; Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:41:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:41:08 +0100 From: Florian Lohoff To: Richard Scheffenegger Message-ID: <20110131084108.GB29944@hydra.gt.owl.de> References: <208F592F3F104C89AA0135E5F02B2241@srichardlxp2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <208F592F3F104C89AA0135E5F02B2241@srichardlxp2> Organization: rfc822 - pure communication Sender: f@zz.de User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: [Bloat] Bloat on Layer 2 Was: ECN & AQM Hall of Fame? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:41:14 -0000 --yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:40:05PM +0100, Richard Scheffenegger wrote: > Hi, >=20 > wasn't there talk about getting a Hall of Fame for networks / operators, > which are using and actively supporting AQM and ECN in their administrati= ve > domain? >=20 The problem is not only in the IP Path. In the old days i was used to be able to work interactive on a Serial connection with 33600 Bit/s shared with 10 Dialup users. After reading Jims blog i started to dig in our Network and found huge buffers on the Huawei MA5600 DSLAMs which are Ethernet based DSLAMs. These DSLAMs are basically invisible to the user as they are only in the L2 PPPoE path for the customer. I found the Buffer to be roughly 1MByte per Line. With a 1MBit/s DSL=20 line this is roughly 10s worth of Buffer which i can observe on my line in the real world. There is no way of tuning this buffer based on the speed or even shrink it so its difficult to fix. ANCP + a shaper on the BRAS would be a solution which is basically how i so= lved it for me - As i have a fixed rate 1MBit/s DSL i attached a 1MBit/s rate limiter to my profile on the BRAS which immediatly fixed the problem for me. And the Hall of Shame probably is a good idea - but wont fix it. The ISPs are not aware of the problem as testing happens on empty lines with 30cm of wire. I sent the link to Jims blog to certain people and the DSLAM guys immediatly promised to contact Huawei about the non tunable buffersize. Flo --=20 Florian Lohoff f@zz.de Professionell gesehen bin ich zu haben .... --yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iQIVAwUBTUZ1o5DdQSDLCfIvAQjVow//TM8WrxgWJM/LRM7DVp1vT2Vzi+4yg1JX Q8kg9VYpDy1L8yia8Cpr4oVtM6zb4iZHKjXvfCS/4kVH8nje++0oHLJGAxAFWUcs RonW/RKVa8qQt848sadiLKJtOizE9Zzw+8I6Bx9SJd0JhrcEjKgodDikh+4pooPb x+AStLQO03FoLlzl2xd439uWw4lQcgGE/XFGNd8N/2oWcT3b0R2YeLqIjbu1KzLt lxYLU1xJjQ0BAuGgpVVReVMkdvs/ntTCRc8euI3Ti+chtspbl9GsQMt1z2dfuj/9 AcpmqRA0MbtRdbUiele8LYi6T5Yx0PF79LTqIIKc5I4sC5OgrmMq3Z2eO1sx8tZx 33gSei3cyHqLTkl+jFFge4hzCjKL7pQA3/sinHHhuiObQARU1/nxmEe1+EAMfuJV QgwBfYX0Y6GgJsUn1OpFRq70PvvH9HzAmqH81L9Cf0NmDvZrk4ssAbibbBR4ycB7 B0X9dz9A6Hj66Uy9AsXJAAynsSoqHzAg0nvYhb4UDPKfdX6bvzjGBdrbAAXES4Dl C2OjO8AQFfrJUHxhtpmAob+KiQufCHU0lNafAkwr1RAPqBF1bzGN7VUDTgC90N4O t2ro4PHB5105hun+PkP4UP161IFennNhGfZqDcvOzycy8q9vCwkoK1tAITONZuvY 17vVM8OR7xk= =XzBl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yNb1oOkm5a9FJOVX--