From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-13-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-071-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.71]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699FC2E04C5 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-11-ewr.mailhop.org (scan-11-ewr.local [10.0.141.229]) by mail-13-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9C5A4DA76 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:15:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 70.61.120.58 Received: from smtp.tuxdriver.com (charlotte.tuxdriver.com [70.61.120.58]) by mail-13-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9FDA4D95C for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:15:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from uucp by smtp.tuxdriver.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PmqDs-0006kc-BT; Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:15:24 -0500 Received: from linville-8530p.local (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by linville-8530p.local (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p18G91xe004842; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:09:02 -0500 Received: (from linville@localhost) by linville-8530p.local (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p18G911J004840; Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:09:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:09:01 -0500 From: "John W. Linville" To: Eric Raymond Message-ID: <20110208160900.GD2448@tuxdriver.com> References: <4D4ECF74.9080305@freedesktop.org> <1297012917.21875.26.camel@amd.pacdat.net> <20110206210317.GC3004@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110206210317.GC3004@thyrsus.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] How do we shift the market? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:15:28 -0000 On Sun, Feb 06, 2011 at 04:03:17PM -0500, Eric Raymond wrote: > richard : > > We should probably come up with a list of key words/phrases that such > > tests and comments and complaints and such can be easily categorized > > under - terms that can be used in a marketing sense. > > > > Things like "multi-mode stress test" or "bandwidth-latency test" > > Or how about a set of classifications of equipment based on what they > > can deal with: 1-user throughput, family-capable throughput or??? > > > > How about "twitch latency" for the gamer market? > > > > It's hard to talk cohesively about the problem if we don't all use the > > same terms with the same implied (and defined) words. Getting at least > > some of them nailed down now will make a difference in the long run. > > > > I see wiki.bufferbloat.net has the "It Works" up on it - a page here on > > terms would be a good thing. > > I am *so* there! :-) > > I'll start a glossary page. (Not strictly direct at Eric...) Is there any sort of standard metric for "latency under load"? If not, should we define one? What would be meaningful? If you achieve a low latency at some high percentage of bandwidth usage, does that always imply you can expect similarly low latencies with lower bandwidth usage? If not, how should our "LUL" metric account for such variance? Sorry if these are dumb questions -- remember, I'm an L2 knuckle-dragger... :-) John -- John W. Linville Someday the world will need a hero, and you linville@tuxdriver.com might be all we have. Be ready.