From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf0-x22f.google.com (mail-pf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D8463BA8E for ; Sun, 14 May 2017 21:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id n23so49483864pfb.2 for ; Sun, 14 May 2017 18:04:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networkplumber-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rNZNIQ6cXCB6h5WqOdVAXyloCa6ab/cWHThE2CRHeMo=; b=LaEGRoHHSP4f+kkSxGNxmJgcQJjq5aZyZ28gY7+o+CrWYbYdveD0lZZY3i86vp8NxR IptcccMAqTTFWpxqYEUWSL6rV0OSXsULHv3g471d/tsFnEyr/v+bU7FW7Cj69hg+v4Fr O8ZwCAcvSfVY8xaTWHGYkRoR8JAVL1jUherPROSa96Tq7LUHfNK1V4kTsScH/pCtv0QR TmRj8SIns+Xs0sLRwWJ3lkU+cCR6KPPF0ea7V/RnZOlfPK/nYqWv68zgUhGeteilgYgm RQYXbVxUS1Ook+3ooH7l/uuItDP8Q8X15MYFhBJVDQcQGFklRZcYEG8uNhQoQEUS3YC/ IFmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rNZNIQ6cXCB6h5WqOdVAXyloCa6ab/cWHThE2CRHeMo=; b=oAfH58b1kuqm3L4z3MHWkiAGyNJqkd9C5M3avWiEqnf417QWD74WaRHVgS7BGDzH5B aaipIGl99Cwj6uZxt0ZiBe5H0O8rI/bAud/IJJZr+0nlNyFSwCBb0JfYoqOywkE7J/Gg 1oXNov/Dsr4Hl/26gqfA83jx7fY776TcN6lev2katD4oYwL27fQOg4bbXy0IO5SbgVeB ESEPq0lHBJYdXOtH5LH/NV1W+A69jllqUYgek28kiiJuoLV+L948eTMuSEKd1eaXVKZF 3c+JTpfWv2yFGnuw5AMBWC/P67+QcHvERXnqwAADeAKxuPj+z4mI6cPt6fBW4yKPzHql Lm9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDUGoOJBfwy0pz1uQcGCW1uFd1MZ5oHFS7hEeG2j01Wy+ruvhzk SOdF8BJ4S1LIEw== X-Received: by 10.99.125.87 with SMTP id m23mr3504248pgn.79.1494810295643; Sun, 14 May 2017 18:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xeon-e3 (76-14-207-240.or.wavecable.com. [76.14.207.240]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b8sm20221582pgn.51.2017.05.14.18.04.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 14 May 2017 18:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 18:04:52 -0700 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Rich Brown Cc: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, codel , cerowrt-devel , bloat Message-ID: <20170514180452.18907177@xeon-e3> In-Reply-To: <612E36A6-7FB8-4FBA-AC38-339DFC04AB47@gmail.com> References: <24D7CF8A-6FAE-47D8-A9EE-1C1B0734D1E6@gmail.com> <612E36A6-7FB8-4FBA-AC38-339DFC04AB47@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] fq_codel is *five* years old today X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 01:04:56 -0000 Rich, you gave a good "glass is half full" story but my experience is currently much worse. Here is the "glass is mostly empty" story. > There have been so many improvements in so many ways... > > - Cake is the acknowledged winner in SQM But is still not upstream and requires tuning. In real world, SQM needs to be adaptive and/or require no tuning. Fq_codel is still way ahead on this. > > - Make Wi-Fi Fast has removed a couple orders of magnitude of latency in the Wi-Fi stack, and Airtime Fairness has eliminated the Wi-Fi Paradox. But still only works with one chipset, and not in consumer products. > > - All this is Implemented in LEDE, so it's available as a (somewhat) straightforward install on hundreds of different kinds of routers. As a side note, LEDE and OpenWrt are working toward a merger, with a unification of the development efforts. The merger is wonderful. But my experiments with OpenWRT/LEDE and DD-Wrt all show that the OEM firmware has more stable Wifi on Linksys ACM3200. It seems current code base is about where Cerowrt was 2 years ago. > - A few commercial products - notably IQrouter and Ubiquiti - are shipping a good SQM implementation in their products. But these are are not the consumer products people get from Comcast, Fry's or Best Buy. Don't confuse developing with deploying. The biggest challenge in the bloat world now is getting solutions deployed. I hope the world will get better, it just seems to take longer than expected.