From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x231.google.com (mail-qk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66FCF3CB3B for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 20:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id b198so24524330qkg.9 for ; Wed, 04 Apr 2018 17:08:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=BdqGBsHvbSMNmhdTApNECX4JVdS2l790AfsN0dOPeR4=; b=LBCqsPifoD0cjCvoWB7VFYB/1gwXIxLaldDo8ckJztDrzuj4s4KetmDYIvUlzxlUnZ YvkfQU+wUkq0JPG+v0H/jvQ/CyuhW8D9gzSxA9ydcwDcYqW+ch0BQChZj/FiPD+QaULP jZmuPkXG3eJzq3ewDAt8mGybV9kHhiwbIJzB59tHX0qrA8TpYk21iP8UYSPYaABVxTDC 5imYGMnRU+8149SdkZqJLs04y+kCWCfvjreKWtS7OQRmzOli/9oX/eyePvYV1nPEsYAt hQGrF3wvCqsR9PRNS2VrXcrnqlvAJPTX39FoLnt8aPcDJdS8GFYRwYZuyGsYnmxmCsnJ h0GA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=BdqGBsHvbSMNmhdTApNECX4JVdS2l790AfsN0dOPeR4=; b=L9sLDcT9VGQ1HAbNku92PWYVZrnvMA1ZlHenGOmeu5JZLJdk3b9dt3hdMF95vbRG/K tuvdfe7oC5JrOfavykTAq6gTPJ6sRs29XhA8gTRqCVOHy31eQ1Sd4/gbPVPUZp2g6GdZ jJ9+68/9SK2Ve5ue6AActjmioQUJesEvwj8DzosCmUBDayeBXRogeJMR/K2H8k+OOM6j dfJE/wBp1nM5uWmv6Buy/07ksjg8VwRYI4EVXIfo9bU4GGU73emlajbfKU1t0dG/dnYO dzkiXzttNd2zfZO0qCCWSV652qE8t3l3dF6j22PDj50pQpv4bR2iR7i8RMS3Kvvc5wyA PGOg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tB6t/B8hAr17dR9xcvnUzT72i0zx+Vb0887CdnyJV6/9j/3bOQv e4o5IDqJsoGdDISH9cOdUOQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx4+bdq7bCG/7yGMZr23h9sHeA7bDMVVcXWTxgzRr8+lduOmsH5pfaBqdSWGPu5WEfXt9sZ7dcg== X-Received: by 10.55.164.136 with SMTP id n130mr27237259qke.13.1522886903768; Wed, 04 Apr 2018 17:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([177.10.56.96]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 25sm5505414qtv.28.2018.04.04.17.08.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 04 Apr 2018 17:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BC99C180C1F; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 21:08:16 -0300 (-03) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 21:08:16 -0300 From: Marcelo Ricardo Leitner To: Michael Welzl Cc: Michael Richardson , Jonathan Morton , bloat Message-ID: <20180405000816.GD8555@localhost.localdomain> References: <50e57074-4ca5-59f7-f010-d9b2b845a8a7@rogers.com> <8DE589C3-9537-416D-AC7C-9250464869F9@gmail.com> <0ED5B59A-5C31-4F70-A2C9-04D9EA779A7B@ifi.uio.no> <12848.1522869826@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <7DC0ADE6-3D20-417F-8940-96E4A68197B5@ifi.uio.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7DC0ADE6-3D20-417F-8940-96E4A68197B5@ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) Subject: Re: [Bloat] Seen in passing: mention of Valve's networking scheme and RFC 5348 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2018 00:08:24 -0000 On Wed, Apr 04, 2018 at 09:38:02PM +0200, Michael Welzl wrote: > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 4 Apr 2018, at 21:23, Michael Richardson wrote: > > > > > > Dave Taht wrote: > >> How dead is posix these days? Ietf does not generally do apis well. > > > > I disagree. > > > > IETF has lore says that it doesn't do APIs well, and so it's a > > self-fullfiling prophecy. Everyone knows it's true without any actual > > evidence, so nobody tries. > > > > Who does do APIs well today? Microsoft's API story is a disaster, > > so despite decades of market dominance, their networking APIs are not > > defacto standard. While it looks like Linux does APIs well, actually, > > it just does a really good job at getting the public APIs implemented. > > > > The IPv6 BSD sockets API is a roaring success. > > It's just not enough given MIF, DNSSD, IPsec, LISP, etc. The problem > > space has expanded. > > > > The problem is getting API work funded across Google, Apple, MS, *BSD, > > and Linux. > > fwiw, apple is on board of taps and actively involved, and the neat > project ( www.neat-project.org ) made an open source library that > runs on linux and bsd systems Neat has a very interesting concept. If they can pull that out, it will be very nice.