From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x62e.google.com (mail-pl1-x62e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E81C3CB35 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 15:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62e.google.com with SMTP id q17-v6so14779777plr.8 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:45:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networkplumber-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=223ArtBkgqrBJ0FOJwjWqyqoifeK6zgkW9KN5qktUSg=; b=RYUHs7qEawamy0oVCgM952sHrQ2MQ20sfRZqoNASgCp9akskys/cJvRuLKUTl1CV6V QBRswPEPclAcG/Y64TEY4YYO6rrTa8O2EtYcdee/d50+Gq4AXdpJC3+mM184E+mY77Ed Ci7Gk3AhX0JjHGSfo3wjwT+gnLGxMTdk2+cpPrx5nV+tFOs3O+xnRNsG6CbRhNrwOxln er0IsHO/S1OtvcQTYpwujDWEvQPgQL7o88+bwyF8HAQ4YfXNCn20miLPQ/1EiD58HM2s dgGjiS6/w67TODwNfAzX/sJvCEJGpv08uAIIyGGWqeiU2aIBTR2UDu//FvSQUbNNiWTJ rd7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=223ArtBkgqrBJ0FOJwjWqyqoifeK6zgkW9KN5qktUSg=; b=oyR6h2rL7L84D7eulw5QG88pVA/n/6j0zqqGbMrPJZEoc1C4ZOEc9YsDiLm/o1oVNL 0c6k7ttq4z+7PIQ8HJEyVpIanXPod3rn4H+GJ03ubPwWRdkvDvcEZgqy0rLnP3nvswPB kjDAVXT5//DkFcB1QCh9l1Qi3F+CFGf9pV2uZekh7+cg8xZuaxwwV6kKJoRsdTF0En16 apfcqT9GWxsske4cHrvK2RJHeUFunLu+g/925zx6E3ub2Z2ivShjNEQKOliOxkaR6gDa kY7OXcvvyV7G0CiNgst/8Sn5UzH6bCf4KWma45Re07UgK+es7JPf3z4G0IVOdLpYt80q 6wqA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohU1zJZPjO2GWJEnyPQD2Zc/Z2dzQdFF7cyDR0jZfFtio00MeRC nRAIi942RpwLzOhRAH9KP9Iq+Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63CxaBGkD46h2THJ+Fr16U90o55wyFMQFJSlRyx2DTrog5OS0OkGv46G0tfsbSyE21vK0U6lg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:22a:: with SMTP id 39-v6mr31635874plc.267.1539891945568; Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shemminger-XPS-13-9360 ([167.220.99.60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u69-v6sm38075171pfk.68.2018.10.18.12.45.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:45:43 -0700 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Dave Taht Cc: Jan Ceuleers , bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: <20181018124543.04fc1c35@shemminger-XPS-13-9360> In-Reply-To: <87o9bth023.fsf@taht.net> References: <68031ed5-05e5-8f53-5e7d-ef0fce9d08da@kau.se> <20181016080628.2ca3652b@xeon-e3> <87o9bth023.fsf@taht.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] vyatta in AT&T 5G gear X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 19:45:46 -0000 On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:46:44 -0700 Dave Taht wrote: > Jan Ceuleers writes: > > > On 16/10/2018 17:14, Dave Taht wrote: > >> And what was so wrong with the "everything as a file" model?? > > > > On a single box - not a lot. > > > > On a 5G network, which might consist of 10^3 - 10^5 boxes you need > > aggregation and abstraction layers. > > I was mostly just venting. Still... I'd hoped that the next generation > fios gear would get bufferbloat right... and with all the 5G boasting > about the 1ms mac, that they'd get queuing delay below 20ms also. > > I was also hoping the DOCSIS 3.1 line cards would get it right... > > It has been a disappointing day. At scale, you need a usable programming model; on box CLI or files don't work well. Netconf/yang was built for that.