From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 876C63CB37 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2024 10:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6de2f8d6fb9so578406b3a.1 for ; Wed, 07 Feb 2024 07:03:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networkplumber-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1707318183; x=1707922983; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=qj4sBKquNJsa6JjdBukWFgRky9J6PjC1lcEC2PLxRJo=; b=gRq52yGwMOz7O+Dd0rHl5qOkvRmOIbjCAZ+yWPynXvYgyikZcet6nDDLz+oJFKZK2T qeo2R7oKUEBl829GCsw3shCRH5APW28lP3SWot50iLhBhxpT0VYjUZlaMfjyY/s16W4m kt3V3YbCqzVYUNjXGu4yLLgpry0TGFUbcd/vFQ6wH9WTjr2HwSR2FmwNMZaVMEkZuAqv JfNwEyyGjvpJi78VNgaqHxZkMmKUayaHHTng839z151hPr1Jfxc35YHnZ/77vDdXWG2e ktD4Xv/vEy1hZ9UAK3ntKaRJ0/vXEbG8nCrGBz8Cla/efMbHx1Ut+PGZdGqqywn1iS27 bKPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1707318183; x=1707922983; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qj4sBKquNJsa6JjdBukWFgRky9J6PjC1lcEC2PLxRJo=; b=LbpUvgg6bX3xi8egQ0oX/EUse05w/iUpo4PJZIeKs0ZPPhzoqIdzCaWc1MIvpwytpW oqgeKaj4HFZm2b/onHQBIPtwA0+90ee7UIfRodDm+IzaZTcB3dJqImQpvyIRbHf5r7sK ssl42X/Co1mnGluOnb8BdAQ7Jsuywy7hSOyq30QzYjAP9OiEZ1dNZf0E1SrxDBQLrQpO G4z4lrG4SAPKtaaNtR8+RltrhSuWwXtSLZjHE/9VSzNbM0tmNb4goUjavEPTWXsJ2Tlo myTKn72YW+5tYhGq6ud4Y4Qn4WcBCCQdV4LystfF1aiezcK/0IpeaNeHzWQnqngmC8nf Y9JA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx7ztyOS7r8r4QsvwPXuMe4YEY9VHcy/yUBfqkhE/rIXVw8/StE K1YngS7VbLkyXXAta1j8DF3daNdVXqiCiLZcXsBqwQ+93E/9Cq4XEqlWGhNVOqaOm2blFb6Chjt 4O7g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHbN4vbIcsgi4bVcxp+6A8g0KI7mqKgCobm5KY5ELFhbrXQy36Lctlwxb4A8K+1bnpxDt1K7g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:d90e:b0:19e:9bcb:9344 with SMTP id jd14-20020a056a20d90e00b0019e9bcb9344mr5793288pzb.53.1707318183322; Wed, 07 Feb 2024 07:03:03 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWEs3KDwCb+/+DbWUspqQlq1t3VVCTCgBXdrb3GVQpou2fgeIQy1Ni9oojRcdijV51y0+Pt2WGQB7dm+6oL1NR5nmL13nkJMJF/C4w1rN/asNLO9U9iMZ3p8bI= Received: from hermes.local (204-195-123-141.wavecable.com. [204.195.123.141]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l185-20020a6325c2000000b005dc19ac7162sm1652953pgl.3.2024.02.07.07.03.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Feb 2024 07:03:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2024 07:03:01 -0800 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Dave Taht via Bloat Cc: Dave Taht , Michael Welzl , Linux Kernel Network Developers Message-ID: <20240207070301.30c92e23@hermes.local> In-Reply-To: References: <1BAA689A-D44E-4122-9AD8-25F6D024377E@ifi.uio.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] Trying to *really* understand Linux pacing X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2024 15:03:04 -0000 On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 07:05:27 -0500 Dave Taht via Bloat wrote: > I also tend to think that attempting it in various cloudy > environments and virtualization schemes, and with certain drivers, the > side effects are not as well understood as I would like. For example, > AWS's nitro lacks BQL as does virtio-net. FYI - Microsoft Azure drivers don't do BQL either. Both netvsc and mana. The problem is that implementing BQL is not as easy as it looks and has possibility of introducing bugs. One big customer with a stuck connection totally negates any benefit! For virtio, there have been several attempts at BQL and they never worked perfectly.