From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.com (mout.gmx.com [74.208.4.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20D743CB35 for ; Tue, 4 May 2021 20:14:42 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mail.com; s=dbd5af2cbaf7; t=1620173680; bh=4csxmpjzWQ2WnyYFerMhiCUI2+Z1bFDiS1M2HVCFl9Y=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=DveZtf5vl7FdYVxyi31nPZbRA4PtBch6jZGea5SH3289dGrQP+/nWReLwsQxRn7y+ OeV+6zPbsmsACWMD7fJJPm72Hqb9bhZaKGcEqK7NzmMtxtoh5GNM37Zus62hXASq2p W+pmdIb43k2iM0QWD6L9vTA0MYI3PirwuZKRslA4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 214d933f-fd2f-45c7-a636-f5d79ae31a79 Received: from smtpclient.apple ([70.35.104.94]) by smtp.mail.com (mrgmxus003 [74.208.5.15]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LrdHP-1lY4yg2ww9-013OaY; Wed, 05 May 2021 02:14:39 +0200 From: James R Cutler Message-Id: <211C00F4-BAFE-4F04-B39B-CCFA76FB980E@consultant.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0FF03B35-13F4-416D-9DB6-F4315F698631" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.11\)) Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 19:14:38 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Michael Yartys via Bloat To: "Livingood, Jason" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.11) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qXq/ZjbloFlw8tRI668oSA0hsrAOA97KroOR7iYYb9M2cW6rDgo vfNUyH3zIgIv6vDXeLb8dhK+mMfbr+ToCLufYICJgOFyRD/+BRYPQoxAF/jLAqyxqkHdKGu swHR67jGU7HnD0bLnnS3Alpxua3JgRwwCHu/8uCe1bH+Vkokb4DV9UY0j9Lj8Cn1VSut1Zd G5h4vzrxQpunV0x+ZDsTQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:FqFqcEAqqso=:axzA87/DWvjHXCS8U/oK6I AW/sevNW2UoLMBibpdmX8L0lE/Ki4G2fpQxRNLTgPRK8LO+v/rl0UsKPwELgkptVCU15Jo7BI NeBC5dmqAzKCVLHOhmuCJZNXDQEDbXCdEHSIObEcaecjbzs0+WqHg+UXFDB+CrriaU6QZsxRn tpgZlBP1BHB/w8mcm32IGN0IJyXJOra/CEi/dPrqZwG+rwtzOl3/+uWZCAddvTM4sL35RNn5L QOluwhFdtmkSxA5M2m0MhTGncuCQ/fSBv798TxOg/yfiGT+kx6AQi/F3X9NzKywF+ptOqsypX O38rZxQ2dPHGR+l/IS7Fqtg0wGUfRFyKiiv4nBndJbSPq3atwlDrVldBWihhqcYJF31jzxOjT 2aoe2cc3g/+ZXdAMSRaEjlqdT2hxhQOlZ3LUk50PPCOJ0iPqiih0tsmZTolji1Hb2CB3BzPe2 8H7oQjP7ZNF7nnZuw2vzxB44bY//8TBZriEkhqOReC2HvjVSUoIcef/32miwZk3u3PpaEq48d xvd99bYXFgwvSEj0+d0yzT7PXGmiZUfo/s93VQovOwZRH2PW/TagxnkfyG+Sb8JUbSkUFjkNq LGGXtIB4awWBRqQov2iTtDzNtzrCJ5wcSBwgiY+cDiqp6/ILfwmmKOfm94GD0jHSNNRSuHStK Q1DgJY+2sSnDxcnRmrD/ITrU1aUvievZsXKoRkaM/BBpdIUfya4DyNdFn4bxMXY6LYxgE8+Gg F85Y/VPt8wb5PyxfAjqmlcTPsrR7UsmL1notv2KIDcv7gYEJSq+CcgwxvTOUtsjEbLoPTqs/v qgX8ks5uRJgaiElBFjQZibfPi3bMWYNaMFVpZy9UzPvQKZ33iR6nD7sjBS0Q9yDXCFdp9JrLj V8qH6sbErUdGP/8FMS2mS2phUDVf+yiHn9yRhu5ZiPkGhq83KeI74KApq5BuM5plGgxtsZfxe A9zwA3vNjhlZYjoa4Ux+6FyzuboRXquTi6zl0kjBXYaju97Fd03mXWxO9WKV25o62lBsPchcN wzxeoEmPgxPXr/MkxJXrUBLQv8KpuqWltcC6dQkdlHFoUWmYMhsnCWdFMAZQvqGaShHX1dEVA xhuc+kc/4Twd5FYZtdqBjd4S0RiSxTrKNfUEbhbV4LtkJW0E8sVq85pZTSQk5PAW0B73OG408 0LlrvlYjFwcZF0FTrB1eXpVcr96/+1nVDesV6Q+wPYcweAOol60y0bXlesipqzOhXLz/XYxmK yui14Jv4bW9wfWi1wrpskvO5ox9sARYkZbn4Tc5cg9eDYfw9Nbl0M0uGWjAb6ir4JGDlf/wvD nfadtwRkhj0fwLbNQWjQLUJUPj33DQ== Subject: Re: [Bloat] Terminology for Laypeople X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 May 2021 00:14:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0FF03B35-13F4-416D-9DB6-F4315F698631 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jason, I find =E2=80=9Cidle=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cworking=E2=80=9D to be = understandable both individually and as opposites in almost any field or = endeavor. These terms also mesh with typical speed test instructions = regarding testing under idle conditions without working internet = applications. James > On May 4, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Livingood, Jason via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > Like many of you I have been immersed in buffer bloat discussions for = many years, almost entirely within the technical community. Now that I = am starting to explain latency & latency under load to internal = non-technical folks, I have noticed some people don=E2=80=99t really = understand =E2=80=9Ctraditional=E2=80=9D latency vs. latency under load = (LUL). > =20 > As a result, I am planning to experiment in some upcoming briefings = and call traditional latency =E2=80=9Cidle latency=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 a = measure of latency conducted on an otherwise idle connection. And then = try calling LUL either =E2=80=9Cactive latency=E2=80=9D or perhaps = =E2=80=9Cworking latency=E2=80=9D (suggested by an external colleague = =E2=80=93 can=E2=80=99t take credit for that one) =E2=80=93 to try to = communicate it is latency when the connection is experiencing normal = usage. > =20 > Have any of you here faced similar challenges explaining this to = non-technical audiences? Have you had any success with alternative = terms? What do you think of these? > =20 > Thanks for any input, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat = --Apple-Mail=_0FF03B35-13F4-416D-9DB6-F4315F698631 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Jason,

I = find =E2=80=9Cidle=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cworking=E2=80=9D to be = understandable both individually and as opposites in almost any field or = endeavor. These terms also mesh with typical speed test instructions = regarding testing under idle conditions without working internet = applications.

James

On May 4, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Livingood, Jason via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

Like = many of you I have been immersed in buffer bloat discussions for many = years, almost entirely within the technical community. Now that I am = starting to explain latency & latency under load to internal = non-technical folks, I have noticed some people don=E2=80=99t really = understand =E2=80=9Ctraditional=E2=80=9D latency vs. latency under load = (LUL).
 
As a result, I am planning to = experiment in some upcoming briefings and call traditional latency = =E2=80=9Cidle latency=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 a measure of latency conducted = on an otherwise idle connection. And then try calling LUL either = =E2=80=9Cactive latency=E2=80=9D or perhaps =E2=80=9Cworking latency=E2=80= =9D (suggested by an external colleague =E2=80=93 can=E2=80=99t take = credit for that one) =E2=80=93 to try to communicate it is latency when = the connection is experiencing normal usage.
 
Have any of you here faced similar = challenges explaining this to non-technical audiences? Have you had any = success with alternative terms? What do you think of these?
 
Thanks for any input,
Jason
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