From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBB313CB37; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D4E7A1EEE8; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:30:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com D4E7A1EEE8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1678822232; bh=oobh+w4RwUJKMuNjG0aDZkCGlin0bAXOV9O/EmuevG4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=ndfedDnBPU2AwQCIfhklCJWNX7VGk0U567h8rgcaKS7ZeA2o4lsD1FVZ2OCu8ekjc NiIKqYAcVCqvWrP2lqcZKNapPifBMvu2tCZcOfEwi1nENH6wvPbmtpKauiR+/bs0BF nFylsJ5sXcqyBaRNFiaBDPS9Jbp7lUU5GYU+JB1M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:30:32 -0700 From: rjmcmahon To: dan Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Dave Taht via Starlink , Mike Puchol , bloat , Rpm , libreqos In-Reply-To: References: <3CD0B9E6-0B2A-4A70-8F53-ED0822DF77A6@gmx.de> <13DE6E53-665F-4C20-BBE2-70E685421E9D@gmx.de> <22C819FA-DDD7-4B9B-8C09-8008D4273287@gmx.de> <5e7fac51071bdbb20837e72e7eedfc7c@rjmcmahon.com> <3f45d2a0b6e46d7b2775fb801e805f93@rjmcmahon.com> <70F71290-C6CB-4D19-8A88-F0F17C0BDDA2@gmx.de> <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com> <2ab2983d-6beb-49cb-8c35-e481cbfdc7a3@Spark> <89c55d67-86f0-494d-a09e-c9aeebe46dc0@rjmcmahon.com> <70CBB03C-4394-4A93-BBB5-7449DC1AAF9C@gmx.de> <063359bf-5bf3-4688-852c-a7d81e6b80a3@rjmcmahon.com> Message-ID: <21f2252ff57e60dc52e7b9a6db8ba936@rjmcmahon.com> X-Sender: rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] [Starlink] On FiWi X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:30:34 -0000 The design has to be flexible so DIY w/local firewall is fine. I'll disagree though that early & late majority care about firewalls. They want high-quality access that is secure & private. Both of these require high skill network engineers on staff. DIY is hard here. Intrusion detection systems, etc. are non-trivial. The days of broadcast NFL networks are over. I disagree to with nobody wanting to pay for quality access to knowledge based networks. Not that many years ago, nobody wanted to pay to teach women to read either. Then, nobody wanted to pay for university. I grew up in the latter and figured out that I needed come up with payment somehow to develop my brain. Otherwise, I was screwed. So, if it's a chatGPT, advertising system - sure wrong market. Free shit, even provided by Google, is mostly shit. Connect to something real without the privacy invasions, no queueing, etc. I think it's worth it in spades despite the idea that we shouldn't invest so people, regardless of gender, etc. can learn to read. Bob > end users are still going to want their own router/firewall. That's > my point, I don't see how you can have that on-prem firewall while > having a remote radio that's useful. > > I would adamantly oppose anyone I know passing their firewall off to > the upstream vendor. I run an MSP and I would offer a customer to > drop my services if they were to buy into something like this on the > business side. > > So I really only see this sort of concept for campus networks where > the end users are 'part' of the entity. > > On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:14 PM Robert McMahon > wrote: >> >> It's not discrete routers. It's more like a transceiver. WiFi is >> already splitting at the MAC for MLO. I perceive two choices for the >> split, one at the PHY DAC or, two, a minimalist 802.3 tunneling of >> 802.11 back to the FiWi head end. Use 802.3 to leverage merchant >> silicon supporting up to 200 or so RRHs or even move the baseband DSP >> there. I think a split PHY may not work well but a thorough eng >> analysis is still warranted. >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> Get BlueMail for Android >> On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:54 AM, dan wrote: >>>> >>>> You could always do it yourself. >>>> >>>> Most people need high skilled network engineers to provide them IT >>>> services. This need is only going to grow and grow. We can help by >>>> producing better and simpler offerings, be they DIY or by service >>>> providers. >>>> >>>> Steve Job's almost didn't support the iPhone development because he >>>> hated "the orifices." Probably time for many of us to revisit our >>>> belief set. Does it move the needle, even if imperfectly? >>>> >>>> FiWi blows the needle off the gauge by my judgment. Who does it is >>>> secondary. >>>> >>>> Bob >>> >>> >>> most people are unwilling to pay for those services also lol. >>> >>> I don't see the paradigm of discreet routers/nat per prem anytime >>> soon. If you subtract that piece of it then we're basically just >>> talking XGSPON or similar.