From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qg0-x232.google.com (mail-qg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 580FD21F1F3 for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 04:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgfa7 with SMTP id a7so33321816qgf.1 for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 04:34:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=gzhQm/6t+omKMsluk4aDvyY4TWQbtKl2WqPEDG0K7pY=; b=kzhu0xeJZQKZu43pet9BygoxcC3tP/DF1ML46nfXB+E6z2TsHsOjJGjl1ZcwO6p3Z3 0RK2862Jz31z3m2avUm/oW6dogp0JVqxHnZycvaURkyQb9ULPHHqUN+zNGCZ8ik6wpl1 9qoaa5h2nD7t4GNp6po7gXM06Omw2Zy9IWV94G/d47BdDJJ9TjwJ5ZoF3pPnXLc3WZSm 3YWGkIc/cX5EUVmSP4IpnP09AAq35IIvKcwxa6jo6ZgPxvKFR6pRw16bBiZgB6xmMftC kT6f6sd0kzzC4u4e+unSW6Cde8PCyMJvS5m8ZJX3z6KPWO6nUhnaj0i02Cc55LcHFKMV 4tow== X-Received: by 10.55.21.221 with SMTP id 90mr45511632qkv.44.1431948865142; Mon, 18 May 2015 04:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richs-mbp-12926.lan (pool-70-16-202-129.man.east.myfairpoint.net. [70.16.202.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b141sm6882935qka.11.2015.05.18.04.34.24 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 May 2015 04:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FD952555-658E-41C4-8F57-33A2E202A985" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Rich Brown In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 07:34:22 -0400 Message-Id: <2282F416-A009-4BEE-8B8D-0429E849857D@gmail.com> References: To: Jim Gettys X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] General Bufferbloat Testing Document. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 11:34:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FD952555-658E-41C4-8F57-33A2E202A985 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jim, This is great news.=20 > I'm glad you've got this letter going. I have started to write = (mentally) this note several times, but two things always checked my = momentum: >=20 > - Last summer, I sent notes asking the big speed test sites simply to = add a latency test. (speedtest.net, testmy.net, speedof.me). All three = responded that (basically) they would ask their developers about it, and = you can see the (non) results.=20 >=20 > - I'm afraid that it's not in their self-interest to add a latency = test. Especially Ookla - I see their test package bundled as part of the = offering for lots of ISPs. Ookla are hardly going to "enhance" their = speed test in such a way that customer's customers can plainly see, = "Congratulations on starting your service with us. You can see your = speeds are pretty good, but you get an F- for bufferbloat." >=20 > =E2=80=8BActually, I had a conversation a couple months ago with Doug = Suttles at Ookla. He said they were interested/willing to add a = bufferbloat test. Hallelujah! > That's what spurred writing the document: to make their job easier; I = promised Doug on that phone call to write such a document. >=20 > Now we'll see if he follows through. >=20 > Note that some ISP's are actively interested in getting bufferbloat = fixed (e.g. Comcast, just look at Jason Livingood's recent tweets). = Bufferbloat is between ISP's and the ability to provide better low = latency services, and some ISP's are wise enough to understand that. Comcast has been thinking about this a long time, and now has the = science and technology in hand (DOCSIS 3.1/PIE), so I'm hoping they roll = it out soon. > So I don't think it's quite the situation that it appears on the = surface. >=20 > The latter point is the reason that I'm so glad that Justin has added = the latency test. DSLReports.com doesn't have any sacred cows to = protect, so they're free to call it as it is. And I also love that they = do it with a letter grade: "Hey, dude. Your connection is bloated, and = you get a D". >=20 >=20 > =E2=80=8BI'm very happy to see DSLreport's test indeed. I hope it = encourages the other testing services to follow through. >=20 > =E2=80=8BIf you have contacts at those services, please send them a = link to the document.=E2=80=8B >=20 > =E2=80=8B=20 > There is still a long row to hoe, but as more and more people get = de-bloated, the test will help spread around the knowledge that "it = doesn't have to be that way". =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B >=20 > =E2=80=8BYup. >=20 > Jim Best, Rich >=20 > Rich >=20 >=20 > On May 15, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Jim Gettys wrote: >=20 >> Even before I knew about the wonderful DSLreports bufferbloat test, I = had started working on a document to help people like that (e.g. Ookla) = understand how to do bufferbloat testing. The document also grew a bit = beyond that topic, by the time it was done.... >>=20 >> The document is at: >>=20 >> = https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5NN4WRKQKK-RtxtKR__XIwkybvsKEmunek2Ez= dw_90/edit?usp=3Dsharing >>=20 >> Comments welcome.=20 >>=20 >> It's intended long term home is the bufferbloat.net wiki, but I've = found Google doc's commenting feature really useful. >> - Jim >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_FD952555-658E-41C4-8F57-33A2E202A985 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Jim,

This is great = news. 

I'm glad you've got this letter = going. I have started to write (mentally) this note several times, but = two things always checked my momentum:

- Last = summer, I sent notes asking the big speed test sites simply to add a = latency test. (speedtest.net, testmy.net, speedof.me). All three responded that (basically) = they would ask their developers about it, and you can see the (non) = results. 

- I'm afraid that it's not in = their self-interest to add a latency test. Especially Ookla - I see = their test package bundled as part of the offering for lots of ISPs. = Ookla are hardly going to "enhance" their speed test in such a way that = customer's customers can plainly see, "Congratulations on starting your = service with us. You can see your speeds are pretty good, but you get an = F- for bufferbloat."

=E2=80=8BActually, I = had a conversation a couple months ago with Doug Suttles at Ookla.  = He said they were interested/willing to add a bufferbloat = test.

Hallelujah!<= /div>

That's what spurred = writing the document: to make their job easier; I promised Doug on that = phone call to write such a document.

Now we'll see if he follows through.

Note that some ISP's = are actively interested in getting bufferbloat fixed (e.g. Comcast, just = look at Jason Livingood's recent tweets).  Bufferbloat is between = ISP's and the ability to provide better low latency services, and some = ISP's are wise enough to understand = that.

Comcast has = been thinking about this a long time, and now has the science and = technology in hand (DOCSIS 3.1/PIE), so I'm hoping they roll it out = soon.

So I don't think it's = quite the situation that it appears on the surface.

The latter point is = the reason that I'm so glad that Justin has added the latency test. DSLReports.com = doesn't have any sacred cows to protect, so they're free to call it as = it is. And I also love that they do it with a letter grade: "Hey, dude. = Your connection is bloated, and you get a = D".


=E2=80=8B= I'm very happy to see DSLreport's test indeed.  I hope it = encourages the other testing services to follow = through.

=E2=80=8BIf you have = contacts at those services, please send them a link to the = document.=E2=80=8B

=E2=80=8B
 
There is still a long row = to hoe, but as more and more people get de-bloated, the test will help = spread around the knowledge that "it doesn't have to be that = way". 
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B

=E2=80=8BYup.

Jim
=
Best,

Rich

Rich


On May 15, 2015, at = 12:16 PM, Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> = wrote:

Even before I knew about the = wonderful DSLreports bufferbloat test, I had started working on a = document to help people like that (e.g. Ookla) understand how to do = bufferbloat testing.  The document also grew a bit beyond that = topic, by the time it was done....

The document = is at:


Comments welcome. 

It's intended = long term home is the bufferbloat.net wiki, but I've found Google doc's = commenting feature really useful.
        =                    - = Jim

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing = list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat


<= /div>
= --Apple-Mail=_FD952555-658E-41C4-8F57-33A2E202A985--