From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 080623B2A4 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBFEC1813F; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id S4iW4dgyu8tV; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AA31809D; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:53:46 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1659974026; bh=hpBV31IOA/o/5zUa0nTcHw/IbO9DhMqkkgs1kBD6W5E=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=isA3QLomwY9tI6nYFiav2HMomKxsmpZrtFLgnc9nPWWetZh5omvKqTtTg0XO+8Gwz 0jZwSG54cNLuKbIc4NhrGVnAm3LfngpOxQGo+s1gpYycscPGSIXV593N7vm/kTk90J n6YKVijw3A/bBNmO+BgjlW1KzyNL5BigLW0h52mW45uONx5j58Re5ixkKmp/2Ae/RB pvRHR4c+ys4LKmYE2YXgb0JQuDslk0nfOppsue0WeMydz9vvt+huQdGaEP0gKGxs9E NON2bNwLLTQP7F0CLEils7b1+pEX0XES2KbWBXPelm1GSbRP1ZtMkWE1N+w0e2AHRc 6gqRk4uMhQ81A== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACC166E; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 11:34:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Jonathan Morton , Daniel Sterling , =?us-ascii?Q?=3D=3Futf-8=3FQ=3FBj=3DC3=3DB8rn=5FIvar=5FTeigen=3F=3D?= , Jonathan Morton via Bloat In-Reply-To: <3E1E9948-7C5B-4A0C-830C-FCB45E191587@gmail.com> References: <20220804162440.57fd5201@hermes.local> <3E1E9948-7C5B-4A0C-830C-FCB45E191587@gmail.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 27.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Subject: Re: [Bloat] Researchers discover major roadblock in alleviating network congestion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 15:34:48 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Jonathan Morton via Bloat wrote: > I believe it is actually possible to achieve equalisation of network > power between flows, which would approach the global optimum of network > power, using information from the network to guide endpoint behaviour. > This is *only* possible using explicit information from the network, > however, and is not directly compatible with the current > congestion-control paradigm of RTT-fairness by default. There is a thread on ietf@ietf.org about the role of the IETF (and RFCs) in making the Internet more sustainable/energy efficient. I don't think that the term "network power" is units of Joules :-) but I do think that transmitters that are fully powered on, but idle are a waste. I think that we (the world/internet/R&D/operational community) are ready for ways to optimize flows that explicitely take information from the network. To do this well requires new trust relationships that have been very difficult to even create locally, even within an Enterprise. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFFBAEBCgAvFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmLxLRIRHG1jckBzYW5k ZWxtYW4uY2EACgkQgItw+93Q3WUMuwf/RJX3XEEJ4k0ILF/B3Vc/sF4/x1hqeIVi Z8AJbbjY3zkw5k6ZpQlvX5q+NH9IiFCmuOaztN4+Y2GsuNNAPx/xIKymLv7QV0NS Xdi61d0lH3QJnALRbYndxWZQAbCLMMPIaDLZal4r4iDmx6zJsM4hqRitXpoc/QAv Yr21czAVLCWfs1h8bghH62Gq9YRI4IKb88DgDJvUXA2XQ13ToNh3FXekgNFl/hWm j4oY07tLxxORSaoPhqod37DPUqGJIsWZuO/1FAvkwmdQxi4VasOEJpwEOjbAoN90 CiQmM85WcyUeIFUoUZuljW8eP0a86lPZyMkAPbT9iVgAfC/MLuECUQ== =whRj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--