From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D95D33B29D; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:23:19 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1665433398; bh=Z78L8QyOE4oPsAAJwd5M08PYtVyYOgqDC3zhk6teKfQ=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=CK3HHUuUKHSR0et4l0Jpavlztl2o0lVsqaVv5AOFq4tm2zvrKzb8CWLE+sOA6tWc1 FTCkqE20bs1qJAV9LGu8PWHFeVLoiLMIBDw4hV6zOtRRSf62PZIhdZLAKQUmViVB+Q DmppSfhKH6gwRR5Twl6PR7KTUiOaGd+79FRxpGCE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([95.116.112.62]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MwQT9-1oypGd0rav-00sREZ; Mon, 10 Oct 2022 22:23:18 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <8FD1A16D-F886-4504-A089-62CD3A8D2CF2@telenor.no> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 22:23:16 +0200 Cc: Rpm , Make-Wifi-fast , Cake List , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2601A81B-4E21-454C-9959-EDD725547E9E@gmx.de> References: <72674884-9E0D-4645-B5F5-C593CC45A8F0@gmx.de> <8FD1A16D-F886-4504-A089-62CD3A8D2CF2@telenor.no> To: Taraldsen Erik X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+tVbWq9RuFXFbft+1mgrVNiwfzkJy/9L7BwnZFLEKlVm5PAjBgl A8IxgQ9nf1FqKgTjarL2nb8aimkjsK1V10TTKYvv9LhLrgKmBMusGTn65yGeOnsZN5WngOi VeX/KJR08JzumaEaf+pi6n2ILL5NbJNBfHYb0KN9MYwqnPfgaovpAx/e9Z3IaT9eIJ1K1IB pd9Ca3evJlrp5l6siMvpw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:AMjKkhyutuI=:a52kUOIom90oZascjjWDYn RuYHlSK9eKYomd6UtJxMKVXpyOkCTKJbHLxamDoiaeVq7udDkx30Tws+ABUPFyuqyW0t6C0Np AKU5F1dZvJ4x3u7mWS/Icb/CU200pK+ZNpGfVynwmiD1cboSBSPlIslgTeb194Nf36Tv27mSo 9aiESf2OBc7hOYre7ZisdG9rnmEjHwB63J8VWP9AHLSfQ1Tmmg94S0frC+Y2cyDqW698+5BIn Az+3bwr/8cpDkg/5Rw1olX1oefDhlKpAu7DtetN1uEnokT/637geNnsER33iyiCctnXiy6YDm 7nh9qsyur98dU+Ghe4/uD0I9+Njn4KrIRfmvPdpqaQpp6pyFNuNiylQY9jCJVrTdUNWXFEljg 0diYTjQZfPmJGc95E6/yxEI56jb1Zy2BUuiaeNkXrkT47c8k7lFPskrsHYDnWKWc8xgGHd68R nIIpqV8ce/WC2HM36b2ub3BhdPRQUHbtq8Jrb89Y2DG/VdTQ0rQc4hYx/KqO24sYf7/4KWXj/ s9mqSqnY25E6joRnDzUdwk1oz86f5G2B58qP6uaRneT1j7MX8U1eARRy7h+5tEIgH1VbMGQjf y/0v9fQZzxhjfv2EJoz0qSe+y7w1eczpsAUjSPwmuaV2Nx2J8Ftrk53DkRJC+HbNpxGgeGPeQ +hNBEMVfGQbYWC3XBOMffzUhqpTpD+2IzFCP1BC/x3v4QYLPXXuz430AS/oOrJU9qA89myIPh YDXbh5LJ9uHVJ0AJmQA4/glxD3ZZ+OamikR8UbymMxr7vsa8B14W5ExNkz4mN/62Y69tjBxpf Q87RvWyuKwl9SBvNwwMets0FFbk/J/q3nDN2HLI1k5ARO7MLuSDWV9wc3eE+2a2+4gvmYoJ9Y wsMOJpNYTT9hv9IZ9Xas/6Ir/zuHMeAIqruShdusZgaIP2A1LSKbBWgRrO8ppn6gcE2kJvF/3 4WMFLchgQL4zt54OARiHzscw7GuVdOecJbycRhEANba3sXvuDEM6uBQmxPsP/7dMQSSmvd2rC S1K4+VgwdOR/Wr/Tq8waH4xjZNlc0vd3p7fQK19plNjGxB83c8nKH2AxCiLrsMn+jXAzMvb2T zU5Mz91BgGMeDXmC6dvoxm+a8Zy3dMvU6AafG6oVWpdrEIFtJxo1JDwfg+wd7KZeiKFJoJuUP nRJupP/aW2txj+4j0+yERHTe8yatznNWdItbVP7a88Q/Wbap2b85s9TM9nFU8rE+onxFQH7b3 kc5FbZoLMycW8TRZhjwv0ry0F7296N94QT8wW2qLP55C/J6+/bf2E3AJ+eobcIGLpL4O0X0k5 /pP8ia3Z9+vUnpJUoSFgLa/QfuY9zMg/2p7aTNWR/WFe56z0wYKI3FodndXY5pPLMlfc1dfRX 33PtOBI3HlLUE/ept417Zh/kfCV+2OuEyiihcLLlAuV98WAnhFGt53fBUplEx63iq8xRHNdL8 n/klwkmVVDiIUiBZxovQJJjsdV7Go7dyfa004wJqUjeD8fA6yd2SmlH641k8xrEz5EKswmCG8 ye8wQTdK4vrEdkPm264Cnm8u1CCNqM27jfnNv7kW3Wjnm Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cake] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:23:20 -0000 Hi Erik, > On Oct 10, 2022, at 13:46, Taraldsen Erik = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 10/10/2022, 11:41, "Bloat on behalf of Sebastian Moeller = via Bloat" wrote: >=20 > [SM] Cool, if I might ask what fraction of the sync are you = setting the traffic shaper for and are you doing fine grained overhead = accounting (or simply fold that into a grand "de-rating"-factor)? >=20 > We ended up just using a fraction. =20 [SM] Fair enough, for ATM/AAL5 that is challenging but for = VDSL2/PTM that seems workable... > Can't remember the exact fraction, but we were not conservative. It = was hard to push through this change so leaving any bw on the table was = sacrilegious to a lot of people. [SM] Tricky... e.g. vectoring enabled CPE can be instructed by = the DSLAM to send error samples in-band with the data, but that traffic = is never seen by our shapers, so to account for that we need to set a = fraction that allows for that (more or less) periodic traffic. I guess = one can reach a point of "goog enough" even when ignoring such = eventualities, especially if having to convince through-put hot-rodders. = Always interesting to hear experience from the real world, thanks! Regards Sebastian > =20 >=20 >=20 > -Erik=20 >=20