From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C5933CB35; Wed, 27 May 2020 05:32:16 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1590571931; bh=TiBgCyV/uYp7oMptZEpGJEGYJXtkCUnhaIrvIu+dZMw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=diZU4G3UUNLc0JqwwOzsjsA/62iZaGwOve9cO4Eibwhq14ljWge//7EITj4Gi0d9b WPQfd0xhTtuW8I+ahriMkHDC3uheSYIGVtB05HDISTC98JaNAlWq6K3EVliP77Ajpe Ey8c3Pla2jCGBvI7dlZCxleTo7HDCHFrw+GtfkqE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [172.16.10.214] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MfpOd-1j7HU20EtF-00gJn0; Wed, 27 May 2020 11:32:11 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <289C7A4A-28B1-4692-AA2B-209347E65415@isoc.org> Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 11:32:10 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Cake List , Make-Wifi-fast , cerowrt-devel , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <26EE5DA8-8946-4E91-A9EE-2E807D9DB28C@gmx.de> References: <05410663-5E50-4CF5-8ADE-3BBB985E32B1@gmx.de> <289C7A4A-28B1-4692-AA2B-209347E65415@isoc.org> To: Matthew Ford X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VXRAqyDRKBj3LNd1NK5TiUhApLATE6Gvn6xgVbIAOAHUi0UDzRK wxb28YvujGdsVECDaokUTyJEf6jOj39tWc9LiBhk/5hMoKWyXNy9mgtIvmKUfYWAXeP9kw4 tQwhlglY+LDrN82+opAeYEJ9q6AxnXYyw7Unx9+0NFHDFzjXtrSpnYgY+GPyWfBh/7BOFoM 8iXsWPBvcVDkCRRPSI/wA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:R1HxqDNMhkw=:nmEbqpVgRgOn7QahMhP23F oWYNBaZ7DS0BCaGuGaEy25sJrO8qBnI8KN5Pilv/HYdWQs23cY0rbnuWVDnPhREabRikFwCO7 5FgL1C3htCDIUbz4MKmiY2PXbZoUZvBVzLcljMOwkxaUFFRDoDIXaqqlJqQSZYcoFNvVWGMZX fcSHM3BypVho0/FuAaRADwwAxCuh37xfHk9nrp5OEaFA8fmi/v/qFJCDFv84jv1KDtemTjP1x U7FMLoFJ87IM2oKTpA36Bo9mUlS4TM1D+yC5ZSsF8ZY0ZBvniK9h51oFdsiLXGsaOtG/JUfXx d5scQjyaVygLZRW+f0FuQvKvFXr8R1xgLOLACL/HC5AsXUeyJqvcVAkh4/6754SqYUeQ/kJNd q/3PrRwDfOWRQw5LxRs/g4BoLUwWv+xd0TbnZht381D3BzDRiVHfWQtfU8o2yiukR3pcztDpr B9Uuo6VKBg4SwaMEsRPelA67WYBlBsXqGM2FL26pv+W+VWNQI6w4EpiUqWrciCOH3uqJr3G2R PwdfX4o+H1O7/p6065FPOIdsevHXKpuFLE+0GEw6LJx9Av44tEIRfFvjoNNqG2LJionGEyDqd GhiVRotCDPrHi+M16oL7LKSk0CUeR/21qVSnWobd583sUlbWvJNLtuEfyE7/oWSCOwSRDyh5r SHXkGH8Qf92VQFFLLYUKOydBVTTsFLn6C/tvwDBlpEnocf0AB6Vn3ptXEJnJ0qWwEufTFHBmi wrewWG8+Tgg+rNdEAi4DJm3mxnjgXK/knYt/soYRut8k3iLa8UE9IouOl0LkDLfTfm+ei+g6k kX9ItjZGppQJA5a/Quu2vzptwPEskcGVpyeVKAXzmzh20o11SWOqRX9Sk3Skp5STvz8kwxAm2 iBQ9ArUiBNmWTdq/MfJ9U55w+6m6T6ybJxIkPOeKlkIBRMtXvZ6YKiAuBZDkUmClEGPZ8fWQ1 GqNshtjaFsqQPy2xh1/pPEZDFJAYdwzz/VES/dnrLFUvdwd3HYYlOOYffcKQQGZRPwrOG9J2u PyjyxkQk24Kzl8qs4mni/EzmEkgBQ8HPdkyLJdLqql5MoTU4qKhf2KFdSsuKOrgii0jko9I7l hhE+EQx8kiy6kQRFHgYHY4d+UBk4XNUId6SoynURA1iZsDoRyThVjbKB077FgTZg9i1jj9iBM f9amytV2MbeZ21uqBSCaPQ7behCMQW7In2dy3SAmYDvVNwmofYsKv7bcKzLXh/QUrFWUCxGe6 Eprq1FdasRow+PvQZ Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cake] dslreports is no longer free X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 09:32:16 -0000 Hi Mat, > On May 27, 2020, at 11:08, Matthew Ford wrote: >=20 > What's the bufferbloat verdict on https://speed.cloudflare.com/ ? Not a verdict per se, but this has potential, but is not there = yet. Pros: Decent reporting of the Download rates including intermediate = values Decent reporting for the idle latency (I like the box whisker = plots, ans the details revealed on mouse-over, as well as the individual = samples) Cons: Upload seems missing Latency is only measured for a pre-download idle phase, that is = important, but for bufferbloat testing we really need to see the = latency-under-load numbers (separately for down- and upload). Test duration not configurable. A number of ISP techniques, like = power-boost can give higher throughput for a limited amount of time, = which often accidentally coincides with typical durations of = speedtests*, so being able to confirm bufferbloat remedies at longer = test run times is really helpful (nothing crazy, but if a test can run = 30-60 seconds instead of just 10-20 seconds that already helps a lot). Best Regards Sebastian *) I believe this to be accidental, as the duration for "fair" = power-boosting are naturally in the same few dozends of seconds range as = typical speedtests take, nothing nefarious here. >=20 > Mat >=20 >> On 1 May 2020, at 20:48, Sebastian Moeller wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Dave, >>=20 >> well, it was a free service and it lasted a long time. I want to = raise a toast to Justin and convey my sincere thanks for years of = investing into the "good" of the internet.=20 >>=20 >> Now, the question is which test is going to be the rightful = successor?=20 >>=20 >> Short of running netperf/irtt/iper2/iperf3 on a hosted server, I see = lots of potential but none of the tests are really there yet (grievances = in now particular order): >>=20 >> OOKLA: speedtest.net. >> Pros: ubiquitious, allows selection of single flow versus = multi-flow test, allows server selection >> Cons: only IPv4, only static unloaded RTT measurement, no = control over measurement duration >> BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, maybe usable as load generator >>=20 >>=20 >> NETFLIX: fast.com. >> Pros: allows selection of upload testing, supposedly decent = back-end, duration configurable >> allows unloaded, loaded download and loaded upload RTT = measurements (but reports sinlge numbers for loaded and unloaded RTT, = that are not the max) >> Cons: RTT report as two numbers one for the loaded and one for = unloaded RTT, time-course of RTTs missing >> BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, but oh, so close... >>=20 >>=20 >> NPERF: nperf.com >> Pros: allows server selection, RTT measurement and report as = time course, also reports average rates and static RTT/jitter for Up- = and Download >> Cons: RTT measurement for unloaded only, reported RTT static = only , no control over measurement duration >> BUFFERBLOAT verdict: incomplete, >>=20 >>=20 >> THINKBROADBAND: www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest >> Pros: IPv6, reports coarse RTT time courses for all three = measurement phases >> Cons: only static unloaded RTT report in final results, time = courses only visible immediately after testing, no control over = measurement duration >> BUFFERBLOAT verdict: a bit coarse, might work for users within a = reasonable distance to the UK for acute de-bloating sessions (history = reporting is bad though) >>=20 >>=20 >> honorable mentioning: >> BREITBANDMESSUNG: breitbandmessung.de >> Pros: query of contracted internet access speed before = measurement, with a scheduler that will only start a test when the = backend has sufficient capacity to saturate the user-supplied contracted = rates, IPv6 (happy-eyeballs) >> Cons: only static unloaded RTT measurement, no control over = measurement duration >> BUFFERBLOAT verdict: unsuitable, exceot as load generator, but = the bandwidth reservation feature is quite nice. >>=20 >> Best Regards >> Sebastian >>=20 >>=20 >>> On May 1, 2020, at 18:44, Dave Taht wrote: >>>=20 >>> = https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/gbd6g0/dsl_reports_speed_= test_no_longer_free/ >>>=20 >>> They ran out of bandwidth. >>>=20 >>> Message to users here: >>>=20 >>> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Make Music, Not War >>>=20 >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht >>> CTO, TekLibre, LLC >>> http://www.teklibre.com >>> Tel: 1-831-435-0729 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cake mailing list >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat