From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F2683B29E for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 16:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-225fbdfc17dso48886895ad.3 for ; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 13:58:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1742677113; x=1743281913; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:cc:to:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Lfcl94LIUsXornT2VBelwSLIq43eI40jXjzWLfERMsc=; b=mWaxFiAKC7h0V/qmlsbQMmvzz62yAqkvH4oYzdyHx5Y5qrvqCZZ+3WiNZDK89RZ6iP n+2az+Ob9GcErBhRtgQrmasiT6/P8aVi8xRE8eCvv8EB1VOqSsCe3FGNPrC59q6TU1uU txIbmG+Z8ZHHE11NC5OZNgAHFHbPCk/x2EOhMIxKGYl2Yr9waA51/6tW4n0cwxYrPhau ZyzpyNC/qxvRgcwTdLXixsSm720/YxR0MY4JzC0gSdzCvJdpCR2iGdQaSN0/KkVdk7S6 adW59SI90rJ0gLzeLFY8RVUCE65btbI2RJ2Yx2kyhVqMup60+T2ylI1jSK8mK248bxup Iuvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1742677113; x=1743281913; h=in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:cc:to:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Lfcl94LIUsXornT2VBelwSLIq43eI40jXjzWLfERMsc=; b=jWm682CZ8h3TSHJ+TU/MulHLaTUkklnnpqYjp5DiayXRa4Vj1iX1SBzgdbIZj+V2zN donp5seGBcbX+n1sMhLPW6hP0MpzzU8XaVlFsvOHRkDqlknRX3n5eak2pripketsPP+r Md1FOJjLzwiQd9/QvkYqY/AXrFmcs0DTbpxggeY6tC6RUT4dIbTHCgu/xKNaJrh6DzHd W1BzbEDjcaza2X7tyASUZVQwbn3aoexZAzz0CbQvhEf4RxVPdhEgfhmxE1LBakSF0tCc pn9i30qVJy6eGA53d5y4W+LgLbb4oX9eJ6nPzdOQV+vZevbroZYverXc7aPeWwUiGIPh rxQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx8KTwbNNl99gDhC0NKuLRuRS/rRt/cr01B9EDUQ3ljYRewUphR JMtJa+5ujgE/jDimgyfwDKkuM+HpOJtpeiOI5yvz/Fqn5gCAInfa X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctGSaI0G713Td1rtw8xeSCMcOsWXVZ7SPdad9P5uok0MZxzAwwSwK2abyL3XQs TWF9wuC5Sg0MFINj+Ip8HMmyrmK5sjorupg1DNGdHpP2yREQcVs/+Fi9CcOkDeR23N40GoD8yNP 99MJ1sMGsfjREw0tWCpwDyRKCv8vCQ0rGrR+BTy4hPI8hG43roi/SdCwCZ4A/WJ+BvNLFmc2B9w 2HdD2H9H1wUa0X3GjJzZdcYxxzqwjp+RrqdIssnswdxfc/MsUgeYnBXogpTXsqLz2xCV+0r7JGQ 5tZPGyVljHU+dwurN+ML5mI4QCbBh51tcXBgsDP28+uN2bRWQh+xwaNkAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFRrw2tQlYVO9VnKjx0GSNpxd4WcqZ53xIaGcI8Y1ogkA/kKMU01Ge4aiQxtKMW1EQZuyBrbQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e881:b0:223:501c:7576 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-22780c6be64mr118017665ad.12.1742677112780; Sat, 22 Mar 2025 13:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.32.129] ([159.196.21.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-227811c6ecdsm39991245ad.107.2025.03.22.13.58.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Mar 2025 13:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------lMPrx3chQP0Q8lFtiQLwMyBY" Message-ID: <2e9b4ba8-10b6-4182-9b12-deed12279ab3@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2025 07:58:28 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: "Mohit P. Tahiliani" Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <174103000203.525445.13919970625670214659@dt-datatracker-5dd67b77bb-4k4zh> <786ca942-4ed6-46d8-8d34-7c86c566da79@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-AU From: grenville armitage In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [Bloat] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2025 20:58:34 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------lMPrx3chQP0Q8lFtiQLwMyBY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Mohit, Thanks for doing the comparison! As for "/any other material related to this?/" I've had a dig around, and there is not a lot. Rasool (the FreeBSD fq-pie author) did write up a university tech report in April 2016, "/Dummynet AQM v0.2 – CoDel, FQ-CoDel, PIE and FQ-PIE for FreeBSD’s ipfw/dummynet framework/" (wayback machine link ). There's also a small mention in an LCN 2017 paper titled "/Characterising LEDBAT Performance Through Bottlenecks Using PIE, FQ-CoDel and FQ-PIE Active Queue Management/" (ieee link , author preprint ). Hope these are of some (historical) interest to your I-D (and the wider bufferbloat mailing list, too). I'm unaware of any production deployment of FreeBSD's fq-pie. cheers, gja On 2025-03-18 18:34, Mohit P. Tahiliani wrote: > Hi Grenville, > > Thanks for the email and the commit link! > > Sorry for the late reply. I was traveling, and also going through the code which you shared. > > I believe the implementation of FQ-PIE in FreeBSD matches the proposed ID very closely. I checked the code for the following: > > 1. There is a per queue PIE instance > 2. Implementation of ECN support as described in Section 5.1 of RFC 8033 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8033#section-5.1) > 3. Use timestamps as a default approach to calculate queue delay instead of Little's Law > 4. The functionality of FQ to be similar to the one used in FQ-CoDel > > and I found that all of the above are the same as mentioned in the ID. I'll edit the ID and mention this implementation. As of now, the ID mentions two implementations: Linux and ns-3. > > Do you have any measurements performed with this implementation? or any other material related to this? I see it mentions that this is a beta implementation, but in case it was used in any real deployment or tested in live networks? > > Thanks and Regards, > Mohit P. Tahiliani > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 6:51 AM grenville armitage via Bloat wrote: > > Hi Mohit, > > I wonder what you think of the fq-pie developed for FreeBSD back in 2015 and merged in May 2016? (commit here .)  It has been too long since I last looked, so would love your thoughts on how it aligns (or doesn't) with https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie/? > > cheers, > gja > > On 2025-03-11 06:01, Mohit P. Tahiliani via Bloat wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I have been working on an Internet Draft on Flow Queue PIE (FQ-PIE) [https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie/], and recently submitted a revised version. >> >> It has been incorporated into the mainline Linux kernel as a queuing discipline (qdisc). Additionally, an implementation of FQ-PIE is available in the ns-3 network simulator. >> >> If you have any suggestions or feedback, please let me know. >> >> Thanks and Regards, >> Mohit P. Tahiliani >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: >> Date: Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 12:56 AM >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt >> To: Mohit P. Tahiliani >> >> >> A new version of Internet-Draft draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt has been >> successfully submitted by Mohit Tahiliani and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name:     draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie >> Revision: 01 >> Title:    Flow Queue PIE: A Hybrid Packet Scheduler and Active Queue Management Algorithm >> Date:     2025-03-03 >> Group:    Individual Submission >> Pages:    8 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie/ >> HTML: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.html >> HTMLized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie >> Diff: https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01 >> >> Abstract: >> >>    This document presents Flow Queue Proportional Integral controller >>    Enhanced (FQ-PIE), a hybrid packet scheduler and Active Queue >>    Management (AQM) algorithm to isolate flows and tackle the problem of >>    bufferbloat.  FQ-PIE uses hashing to classify incoming packets into >>    different queues and provide flow isolation. Packets are dequeued by >>    using a variant of the round robin scheduler.  Each such flow is >>    managed by the PIE algorithm to maintain high link utilization while >>    controlling the queue delay to a target value. >> >> >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --------------lMPrx3chQP0Q8lFtiQLwMyBY Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Mohit,

Thanks for doing the comparison!

As for "any other material related to this?" I've had a dig around, and there is not a lot. Rasool (the FreeBSD fq-pie author) did write up a university tech report in April 2016, "Dummynet AQM v0.2 – CoDel, FQ-CoDel, PIE and FQ-PIE for FreeBSD’s ipfw/dummynet framework" (wayback machine link). There's also a small mention in an LCN 2017 paper titled "Characterising LEDBAT Performance Through Bottlenecks Using PIE, FQ-CoDel and FQ-PIE Active Queue Management" (ieee link, author preprint). Hope these are of some (historical) interest to your I-D (and the wider bufferbloat mailing list, too). I'm unaware of any production deployment of FreeBSD's fq-pie.

cheers,
gja

On 2025-03-18 18:34, Mohit P. Tahiliani wrote:
Hi Grenville,

Thanks for the email and the commit link!

Sorry for the late reply. I was traveling, and also going through the code which you shared.

I believe the implementation of FQ-PIE in FreeBSD matches the proposed ID very closely. I checked the code for the following:

1. There is a per queue PIE instance
2. Implementation of ECN support as described in Section 5.1 of RFC 8033 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8033#section-5.1)
3. Use timestamps as a default approach to calculate queue delay instead of Little's Law
4. The functionality of FQ to be similar to the one used in FQ-CoDel

and I found that all of the above are the same as mentioned in the ID. I'll edit the ID and mention this implementation. As of now, the ID mentions two implementations: Linux and ns-3.

Do you have any measurements performed with this implementation? or any other material related to this? I see it mentions that this is a beta implementation, but in case it was used in any real deployment or tested in live networks?

Thanks and Regards,
Mohit P. Tahiliani

On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 6:51 AM grenville armitage via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Hi Mohit,

I wonder what you think of the fq-pie developed for FreeBSD back in 2015 and merged in May 2016? (commit here.)  It has been too long since I last looked, so would love your thoughts on how it aligns (or doesn't) with https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie/?

cheers,
gja

On 2025-03-11 06:01, Mohit P. Tahiliani via Bloat wrote:
Hi all,

I have been working on an Internet Draft on Flow Queue PIE (FQ-PIE) [https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie/], and recently submitted a revised version.

It has been incorporated into the mainline Linux kernel as a queuing discipline (qdisc). Additionally, an implementation of FQ-PIE is available in the ns-3 network simulator.

If you have any suggestions or feedback, please let me know.

Thanks and Regards,
Mohit P. Tahiliani

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 12:56 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt
To: Mohit P. Tahiliani <tahiliani@nitk.edu.in>


A new version of Internet-Draft draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt has been
successfully submitted by Mohit Tahiliani and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:     draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie
Revision: 01
Title:    Flow Queue PIE: A Hybrid Packet Scheduler and Active Queue Management Algorithm
Date:     2025-03-03
Group:    Individual Submission
Pages:    8
URL:      https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.txt
Status:   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie/
HTML:     https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01.html
HTMLized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie
Diff:     https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-tahiliani-tsvwg-fq-pie-01

Abstract:

   This document presents Flow Queue Proportional Integral controller
   Enhanced (FQ-PIE), a hybrid packet scheduler and Active Queue
   Management (AQM) algorithm to isolate flows and tackle the problem of
   bufferbloat.  FQ-PIE uses hashing to classify incoming packets into
   different queues and provide flow isolation.  Packets are dequeued by
   using a variant of the round robin scheduler.  Each such flow is
   managed by the PIE algorithm to maintain high link utilization while
   controlling the queue delay to a target value.



The IETF Secretariat



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