[Bloat] massively less drafty FCC NOI response on raising the broadband standard speeds

[Bloat] massively less drafty FCC NOI response on raising the broadband standard speeds

[Dave Taht]

I would like to thank everyone that lept into making a contribution to
this document today! It is in much better shape than it was yesterday.
2 days to go!!!

Please comment on the document here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit

If you like where the document is going, please put in your signature.
I will submit a final draft for global review a few hours before the
deadline.

I would also like to humbly thank Steve Crocker for contributing $500
to the gofundme drive for this effort. Steve is the author of the very
first RFC[1], which defined the processes by which the Arpanet and
internet were defined and refined, to this day. He made many other
fundamental contributions along the way. RFC1's history is well worth
reviewing:

https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2015/04/46-years-of-rfcs-celebrating-the-anniversary-of-rfc-1/

I am hoping our efforts here, this week, lay a foundation for a much
better internet moving forward!

A huge thanks to all the other donors to date also! Aside from
gratitude I do not know what to say.  I sent "Tanya" my last "this
machine kills vogons" sticker, but I have new one - since I have
mellowed - that says "This Machine CURES Vogons"  - would anyone want
one of these?), bringing the sum to a magical $1111 as I write. This
is more than enough for a press release! When we did the successful
make-wifi-fast fcc fight, we also brought on board a media manager,
did some outreach, and my uni (karstaad) threw in for a plane ticket
to fly to Washington, and the total cost was about 12k all told.
Presently I plan to focus on getting a good document in by the
deadline, with as many signatures as possible, and do PR later.

gofundme link: https://gofund.me/c1f3ad18

PS I would also like to thank "robert" for throwing in $250 (via other
means), although I am not sure if he was throwing in to keep the flent
fleet alive or this effort.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 4:42 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is so drafty that normally I would not be distributing it this
> early, but family matters have intruded overmuch (in a good way, I
> hope everyone had a great thanksgiving!!) and the Dec 1 deadline is
> looming..
>
> Co-authors (and commentors) desired! I primarily wanted to hit
> latency, latency under load, bufferbloat, as usual, as well as MTBF
> and MTTR as well as how complex networks are, . Just three pages, +
> repeatable experiments in the appendix, so at least those are in the
> public record. Cite the bitag latency report, and this cloudflare
> piece, especially:
>
> https://blog.cloudflare.com/making-home-internet-faster/
>
> Anyway the far too drafty draft is here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit?usp=sharing
>
> In terms of things not flowing for me the concept of equating the need
> for more bandwidth as a solution to everything... to the "chewbacca
> defense" is entertaining but possibly not useful. People are already
> telling me the conclusion is too strong, and it's 4:30 AM, and I am
> going back to bed.
>
> Please comment there, and not here. Thanks for any spare brain cells
> you might have! gnight.
>
> --
> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos



-- 
:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [Bloat] [NNagain] massively less drafty FCC NOI response on raising the broadband standard speeds

[rjmcmahon]

I think I'm being schedule to present iperf 2 to the FCC TAC sometime in 
January 2024. I'll know more soon.

I plan to have a hands on session, going over

o) WiFi/Broadband key latency technologies
o) Iperf 2 tooling and metrics, including bloat (in units of memory)
o) A WiFi diagnostics latency panel from a chip perspective
o) Suggested actions the FCC TAC can take to facilitate better in home 
wireless networks to support low latency needs of all Americans

The assumption is they realize that low latency is long overdue and that 
solutions are in the realm of today's engineering and, of course, 
nature's physics.

Bob
> I would like to thank everyone that lept into making a contribution to
> this document today! It is in much better shape than it was yesterday.
> 2 days to go!!!
> 
> Please comment on the document here:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit
> 
> If you like where the document is going, please put in your signature.
> I will submit a final draft for global review a few hours before the
> deadline.
> 
> I would also like to humbly thank Steve Crocker for contributing $500
> to the gofundme drive for this effort. Steve is the author of the very
> first RFC[1], which defined the processes by which the Arpanet and
> internet were defined and refined, to this day. He made many other
> fundamental contributions along the way. RFC1's history is well worth
> reviewing:
> 
> https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2015/04/46-years-of-rfcs-celebrating-the-anniversary-of-rfc-1/
> 
> I am hoping our efforts here, this week, lay a foundation for a much
> better internet moving forward!
> 
> A huge thanks to all the other donors to date also! Aside from
> gratitude I do not know what to say.  I sent "Tanya" my last "this
> machine kills vogons" sticker, but I have new one - since I have
> mellowed - that says "This Machine CURES Vogons"  - would anyone want
> one of these?), bringing the sum to a magical $1111 as I write. This
> is more than enough for a press release! When we did the successful
> make-wifi-fast fcc fight, we also brought on board a media manager,
> did some outreach, and my uni (karstaad) threw in for a plane ticket
> to fly to Washington, and the total cost was about 12k all told.
> Presently I plan to focus on getting a good document in by the
> deadline, with as many signatures as possible, and do PR later.
> 
> gofundme link: https://gofund.me/c1f3ad18
> 
> PS I would also like to thank "robert" for throwing in $250 (via other
> means), although I am not sure if he was throwing in to keep the flent
> fleet alive or this effort.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 4:42 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> This is so drafty that normally I would not be distributing it this
>> early, but family matters have intruded overmuch (in a good way, I
>> hope everyone had a great thanksgiving!!) and the Dec 1 deadline is
>> looming..
>> 
>> Co-authors (and commentors) desired! I primarily wanted to hit
>> latency, latency under load, bufferbloat, as usual, as well as MTBF
>> and MTTR as well as how complex networks are, . Just three pages, +
>> repeatable experiments in the appendix, so at least those are in the
>> public record. Cite the bitag latency report, and this cloudflare
>> piece, especially:
>> 
>> https://blog.cloudflare.com/making-home-internet-faster/
>> 
>> Anyway the far too drafty draft is here:
>> 
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit?usp=sharing
>> 
>> In terms of things not flowing for me the concept of equating the need
>> for more bandwidth as a solution to everything... to the "chewbacca
>> defense" is entertaining but possibly not useful. People are already
>> telling me the conclusion is too strong, and it's 4:30 AM, and I am
>> going back to bed.
>> 
>> Please comment there, and not here. Thanks for any spare brain cells
>> you might have! gnight.
>> 
>> --
>> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [Bloat] [NNagain] massively less drafty FCC NOI response on raising the broadband standard speeds

[Dave Taht]

I would love an iperf2 example plot(s) (bad vs good) that a c-suiter
could understand in appendix B.

I am still smarting from how incorrectly this plot was interpreted.

https://github.com/cilium/cilium/issues/29083#issuecomment-1824676409


On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 8:24 PM rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
>
> I think I'm being schedule to present iperf 2 to the FCC TAC sometime in
> January 2024. I'll know more soon.
>
> I plan to have a hands on session, going over
>
> o) WiFi/Broadband key latency technologies
> o) Iperf 2 tooling and metrics, including bloat (in units of memory)
> o) A WiFi diagnostics latency panel from a chip perspective
> o) Suggested actions the FCC TAC can take to facilitate better in home
> wireless networks to support low latency needs of all Americans
>
> The assumption is they realize that low latency is long overdue and that
> solutions are in the realm of today's engineering and, of course,
> nature's physics.
>
> Bob
> > I would like to thank everyone that lept into making a contribution to
> > this document today! It is in much better shape than it was yesterday.
> > 2 days to go!!!
> >
> > Please comment on the document here:
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit
> >
> > If you like where the document is going, please put in your signature.
> > I will submit a final draft for global review a few hours before the
> > deadline.
> >
> > I would also like to humbly thank Steve Crocker for contributing $500
> > to the gofundme drive for this effort. Steve is the author of the very
> > first RFC[1], which defined the processes by which the Arpanet and
> > internet were defined and refined, to this day. He made many other
> > fundamental contributions along the way. RFC1's history is well worth
> > reviewing:
> >
> > https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2015/04/46-years-of-rfcs-celebrating-the-anniversary-of-rfc-1/
> >
> > I am hoping our efforts here, this week, lay a foundation for a much
> > better internet moving forward!
> >
> > A huge thanks to all the other donors to date also! Aside from
> > gratitude I do not know what to say.  I sent "Tanya" my last "this
> > machine kills vogons" sticker, but I have new one - since I have
> > mellowed - that says "This Machine CURES Vogons"  - would anyone want
> > one of these?), bringing the sum to a magical $1111 as I write. This
> > is more than enough for a press release! When we did the successful
> > make-wifi-fast fcc fight, we also brought on board a media manager,
> > did some outreach, and my uni (karstaad) threw in for a plane ticket
> > to fly to Washington, and the total cost was about 12k all told.
> > Presently I plan to focus on getting a good document in by the
> > deadline, with as many signatures as possible, and do PR later.
> >
> > gofundme link: https://gofund.me/c1f3ad18
> >
> > PS I would also like to thank "robert" for throwing in $250 (via other
> > means), although I am not sure if he was throwing in to keep the flent
> > fleet alive or this effort.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 4:42 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is so drafty that normally I would not be distributing it this
> >> early, but family matters have intruded overmuch (in a good way, I
> >> hope everyone had a great thanksgiving!!) and the Dec 1 deadline is
> >> looming..
> >>
> >> Co-authors (and commentors) desired! I primarily wanted to hit
> >> latency, latency under load, bufferbloat, as usual, as well as MTBF
> >> and MTTR as well as how complex networks are, . Just three pages, +
> >> repeatable experiments in the appendix, so at least those are in the
> >> public record. Cite the bitag latency report, and this cloudflare
> >> piece, especially:
> >>
> >> https://blog.cloudflare.com/making-home-internet-faster/
> >>
> >> Anyway the far too drafty draft is here:
> >>
> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit?usp=sharing
> >>
> >> In terms of things not flowing for me the concept of equating the need
> >> for more bandwidth as a solution to everything... to the "chewbacca
> >> defense" is entertaining but possibly not useful. People are already
> >> telling me the conclusion is too strong, and it's 4:30 AM, and I am
> >> going back to bed.
> >>
> >> Please comment there, and not here. Thanks for any spare brain cells
> >> you might have! gnight.
> >>
> >> --
> >> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
> >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos



--
:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [Bloat] [NNagain] massively less drafty FCC NOI response on raising the broadband standard speeds

[rjmcmahon]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5063 bytes --]

c-suites do like pictures ;) Us automation types like histograms that 
can be fed into statistical tools.

I've attached a few and can clean them up a bit if it helps. The 20 
flows are to demonstrate that shifting any of the PDFs affects QoE per 
tail latencies of the worst flow.

Bob
> I would love an iperf2 example plot(s) (bad vs good) that a c-suiter
> could understand in appendix B.
> 
> I am still smarting from how incorrectly this plot was interpreted.
> 
> https://github.com/cilium/cilium/issues/29083#issuecomment-1824676409
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 8:24 PM rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> I think I'm being schedule to present iperf 2 to the FCC TAC sometime 
>> in
>> January 2024. I'll know more soon.
>> 
>> I plan to have a hands on session, going over
>> 
>> o) WiFi/Broadband key latency technologies
>> o) Iperf 2 tooling and metrics, including bloat (in units of memory)
>> o) A WiFi diagnostics latency panel from a chip perspective
>> o) Suggested actions the FCC TAC can take to facilitate better in home
>> wireless networks to support low latency needs of all Americans
>> 
>> The assumption is they realize that low latency is long overdue and 
>> that
>> solutions are in the realm of today's engineering and, of course,
>> nature's physics.
>> 
>> Bob
>> > I would like to thank everyone that lept into making a contribution to
>> > this document today! It is in much better shape than it was yesterday.
>> > 2 days to go!!!
>> >
>> > Please comment on the document here:
>> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit
>> >
>> > If you like where the document is going, please put in your signature.
>> > I will submit a final draft for global review a few hours before the
>> > deadline.
>> >
>> > I would also like to humbly thank Steve Crocker for contributing $500
>> > to the gofundme drive for this effort. Steve is the author of the very
>> > first RFC[1], which defined the processes by which the Arpanet and
>> > internet were defined and refined, to this day. He made many other
>> > fundamental contributions along the way. RFC1's history is well worth
>> > reviewing:
>> >
>> > https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2015/04/46-years-of-rfcs-celebrating-the-anniversary-of-rfc-1/
>> >
>> > I am hoping our efforts here, this week, lay a foundation for a much
>> > better internet moving forward!
>> >
>> > A huge thanks to all the other donors to date also! Aside from
>> > gratitude I do not know what to say.  I sent "Tanya" my last "this
>> > machine kills vogons" sticker, but I have new one - since I have
>> > mellowed - that says "This Machine CURES Vogons"  - would anyone want
>> > one of these?), bringing the sum to a magical $1111 as I write. This
>> > is more than enough for a press release! When we did the successful
>> > make-wifi-fast fcc fight, we also brought on board a media manager,
>> > did some outreach, and my uni (karstaad) threw in for a plane ticket
>> > to fly to Washington, and the total cost was about 12k all told.
>> > Presently I plan to focus on getting a good document in by the
>> > deadline, with as many signatures as possible, and do PR later.
>> >
>> > gofundme link: https://gofund.me/c1f3ad18
>> >
>> > PS I would also like to thank "robert" for throwing in $250 (via other
>> > means), although I am not sure if he was throwing in to keep the flent
>> > fleet alive or this effort.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 4:42 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is so drafty that normally I would not be distributing it this
>> >> early, but family matters have intruded overmuch (in a good way, I
>> >> hope everyone had a great thanksgiving!!) and the Dec 1 deadline is
>> >> looming..
>> >>
>> >> Co-authors (and commentors) desired! I primarily wanted to hit
>> >> latency, latency under load, bufferbloat, as usual, as well as MTBF
>> >> and MTTR as well as how complex networks are, . Just three pages, +
>> >> repeatable experiments in the appendix, so at least those are in the
>> >> public record. Cite the bitag latency report, and this cloudflare
>> >> piece, especially:
>> >>
>> >> https://blog.cloudflare.com/making-home-internet-faster/
>> >>
>> >> Anyway the far too drafty draft is here:
>> >>
>> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/19ADByjakzQXCj9Re_pUvrb5Qe5OK-QmhlYRLMBY4vH4/edit?usp=sharing
>> >>
>> >> In terms of things not flowing for me the concept of equating the need
>> >> for more bandwidth as a solution to everything... to the "chewbacca
>> >> defense" is entertaining but possibly not useful. People are already
>> >> telling me the conclusion is too strong, and it's 4:30 AM, and I am
>> >> going back to bed.
>> >>
>> >> Please comment there, and not here. Thanks for any spare brain cells
>> >> you might have! gnight.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
>> >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> 
> 
> 
> --
> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

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