From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC8353BA8E for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.10.50] ([93.233.79.61]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lqhaw-1elDXY25AY-00eNHE; Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:32:14 +0100 To: Ken Birman Cc: Dave Taht , Bob Briscoe , "ken@cs.cornell.edu" , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" References: <4d54f24f-ce83-34a0-41f3-9f728420d548@gmx.net> <87shdr0vt6.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> <79f4d92c-74f4-8cd0-9d38-e51a668cb9b6@gmx.net> <796aa11e-9e35-cf34-e456-6ae98d1875d6@bobbriscoe.net> <87fu9f72za.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> From: Matthias Tafelmeier Message-ID: <31f877ad-a7b1-d7c1-0db8-cf266f823d72@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 19:32:12 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha384; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Ak97iH9EFBpbQBvFPW8R2VWGJda8ST9A1" X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:P59Ps/+3Ovx+cIh0LbhmtVvFyYkjVAqSpo2hL6McqpKOHp4jX7T KvhZOnPnoHgHPcB7yqCP81AUcjG48jXQaJR1CCpJv6s5o/sgJlSVMuz7SQfSC5thKAArezm 6sv7L8DB4GLzzd/IDneLvTLp+DUgv7cJvI/1iBm8az1+rwraRJWOg1ciTzvA1S4ynS0JQnn iiTU1+7QYRAhMBYikxcSQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:r3AwOp+vWkA=:SDFfR5GcK2xXpIfh/AtN2Z AS50KGqeY/mihuVRt4jfNVsf7UPXexWwC/v6WaYY7HsU96nWzUSIrXVp9F6EvyYvJsN600ijR AEUQ76TJdD5+cw27IZYpMjqUql9ewwvXAlJ5lotOlBoVl12X0F0YymyrfGFUKbi8VWb9Sh/OQ UFSVnG8a7lrHjOO7z56rq/1MAi/Mnmuscw/z8NalLT4mBduYHJEyjohh9rGfZ5AWMSa30eFyt 9hSaOONT2yctzHrHElrAoyLVlwmg2kz5RniAR1IK2buEveLjO8/cS3HyWrd0kC2Owy6f29GIh 29VbNw0qBXhbUQ2IXyGu9IdorQwe5zdkgr/RVD1fwHvRG3vKYyPsFg3l2q8hVwB+lCoQgCnUe CeEalHQq3ixn6YF9D4Ou+53MYXSCdg+rDL3H4s21dVbFqLa7xduEvRMANkQSM67Q5Cfv+vp/v GxeJuhedbY3X4ygVGdg8rAKJ0racyMY2lL15YXY7ybrGLWVZgSrwPyg8xnXOhHzK7Z1LGyDXf Sx1YLI2YDgyMZWyNadqB7HgnyHXA4yrqviZSFq720Dvr0wmrtA7OLW/FK/Yxk4n0WuzQtP9YH 2160CTYkKRwKMD8se4tq1QB4wG31nzplMjWqbY0s2Bv2fBv8ex4C3yzI9L+1H5Y/Yn/PCnGbm pvzLdbq2k0UMQyPmzEoYe24FUZ1js5iER88X9V79rYGl/rX0jmijlPzL9vxLZIpxrqjKgQ0gH 81JB+iaI8l1aAWyUmtShFwxtEU6umOLXn9PpangvdsTaC0uVj1WZhN+tWEpnWk+JHbJLVqZd8 fcjpG4Y8XUZhnmQqYEnDG0sfvOfJQ== Subject: Re: [Bloat] DETNET X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:33:02 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Ak97iH9EFBpbQBvFPW8R2VWGJda8ST9A1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="HXRs6IHw80B8bqutuQGvD27snu9BRtfdw"; protected-headers="v1" From: Matthias Tafelmeier To: Ken Birman Cc: Dave Taht , Bob Briscoe , "ken@cs.cornell.edu" , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" Message-ID: <31f877ad-a7b1-d7c1-0db8-cf266f823d72@gmx.net> Subject: Re: [Bloat] DETNET References: <4d54f24f-ce83-34a0-41f3-9f728420d548@gmx.net> <87shdr0vt6.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> <79f4d92c-74f4-8cd0-9d38-e51a668cb9b6@gmx.net> <796aa11e-9e35-cf34-e456-6ae98d1875d6@bobbriscoe.net> <87fu9f72za.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> In-Reply-To: --HXRs6IHw80B8bqutuQGvD27snu9BRtfdw Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FD8E77A00D97E72C2155CF88" Content-Language: de-DE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FD8E77A00D97E72C2155CF88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > - RDMA didn=E2=80=99t work well on Ethernet until recently, but this wa= s fixed > by a technique called DCQCN (Mellanox), or its cousin TIMELY (Google). > Microsoft recently had a SIGCOMM paper on running RDMA+DCQCN side by > side with TCP/IP support their Azure platform, using a single data > center network, 100Gb. They found it very feasible, although > configuration of the system requires some sophistication. Azure > supports Linux, Mesos, Windows, you name it.=20 Yes, here's the DCQCN paper: https://conferences.sigcomm.org/sigcomm/2015/pdf/papers/p523.pdf Really besoothing read for any TCP cc interested person, actually. TIMELY is quite impressive, either. Wasn't ware of that, thanks for sharing. THought Google was refraining to use RDMA since of it effectively not getting rid of the TAIL-LOSS scenarios, but obviously only for the WAN use case. > The one thing they didn=E2=80=99t try was heavy virtualization. [...] > That should have been covered by now, though not by Microsoft, I saw recent work being done by a certain virtualization vendor exploiting RDMA for it's 'all the rage' storage stack. Therefore, it shouldn't be a real stumbling block. > > . It can also discover that you lack RDMA hardware and in that case, > will automatically use TCP.=20 But hold on, that's still useless, isn't it, since it does get capricious/shaky rather quickly? Does this still hold? > We are doing some testing of pure LibFabrics performance now, both in > data centers and in WAN networks (after all, you can get 100Gbps over > substantial distances these days... > Cornell has it from Ithaca to New York City where we have a hospital > and our new Tech campus). We think this could let us run Derecho over > a WAN with no hardware RDMA at all. > Interesting, are you planning to cast this WAN evaluations into a paper or other pieces of intelligence? Never thought it'd make it out of the data centre, actually. 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