From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x236.google.com (mail-lf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24E063CB43 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id t79so21687134lfe.3 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:18:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kIwAoGt+kNW/BCzVASruE0SU6GYAbwHNJuUv5uK2tlY=; b=SVytxjJs58uyIY1HYB2vLvIpHILH5ZP6YT0DQKtxRd8lZyOVUbMiCDdx9CPnJPXgVr J+ERvHFM2Hp9MNDIybPUwWiY0FsK8tJIHTYvr3knwhqdmfjimSbNTUB4Q8KnGBJspTY8 LsCgq33nKBoxARr7+aGRkUJP5I3T8FddC8zaM7NVW6nQUPWdEDObiTwUWTBOgZJA9oPf DzEMAC8HzbpkUo02v5S+ZffTkTBVSmluj8VCUN3v3DRtim4gEFbAWRNSxoDe/ZcdLv6O NV/jOEUYNc/R0com1MVt4af0YE6BplTJ8wvtmLOvb2qIP4+vmV0SzCt4e4/mgVqgQk2V ApPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kIwAoGt+kNW/BCzVASruE0SU6GYAbwHNJuUv5uK2tlY=; b=f3NsIy4r2vas6mPsbgwr3Xi/ZlUaDSkWk1nJVap96fxQP0Wjd3ZsV7lHZChP7oYCRr 1aYo/GL/7uaVEy7egVlgiMUtYgWf/HG2WwJ0OTXQSpA/fh01JbYu1KNc5J4ZMA3Pm6dC MEtUDaZrN7UcmII+1adYf33X0h5wu7StXaFHUbhKIYgdjnI6sabJ+Y99SlwTkkOpV5LJ U191jiwWWpDZbM1C2JM8+0PFQgAZXsrydhHjeU/FTu7AjkBh0S5eV3rv4LGHUjMLYIAN +X9vgJqsVJ9mWmquZPBokqMfVTU0bZj1xMJMo0UssxDws4416CVAXpDKW3jbqfj3TjQv WbsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPCrMGdaVm92AujzBc30D6I+jFk4OwvkFEBeZ15Y6wmc6Sl9p4nv px43/qpi4/s4bdPExTOWp1U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225Nm0ROwCtb2g9rXobDx38+LDotOjSE8guVDkquwnOQoBRFjmKQYIgQrkx99M2e86mdACOprA== X-Received: by 10.46.32.66 with SMTP id g63mr8050705ljg.75.1518459494967; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.239.216] (83-245-233-185-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.233.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i65sm1790792lfb.11.2018.02.12.10.18.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Feb 2018 10:18:14 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <53c420c9-1421-97dd-1a77-15db488ad9ee@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:18:12 +0200 Cc: Dave Taht , Jim Gettys , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <33A86805-8C3C-4535-8082-014E4913A03D@gmail.com> References: <53c420c9-1421-97dd-1a77-15db488ad9ee@gmail.com> To: Jan Ceuleers X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Subject: Re: [Bloat] The Blind Men and the Elephant. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 18:18:16 -0000 > On 12 Feb, 2018, at 8:13 pm, Jan Ceuleers = wrote: >=20 >> but to me the simpler thing would be to garner folk to ask at >> vendor/isp press conferences: "Have you implemented RFC8290 yet? If >> not, when?" >=20 > Devil's advocate: "I don't intend to implement this because, as the > document says, it is only intended for examination, experimental > implementation and evaluation. I make real products, not = experimental-ones." In which case it might be helpful to have ready a list of a number of = "experimental" RFCs, to which common product categories can be expected = to conform already. There might be a surprising number of them. - Jonathan Morton