From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D470A3CB41; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 19:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] (c-69-181-111-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.111.171]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0635F1B326; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:38:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com 0635F1B326 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1679787534; bh=SaXApLX181ql1C9pQaGiSH4Fi2DaVx3OC7QSDElTRnY=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Date:To:CC:From; b=BZDVrexyMS0I0tqsr51mPhq3gPfZet+x36+P1pq/XssC9bLng9YVgvNijYp//GdX7 QMPvqmpUkahqiwCB7BzTK8Pj3WXoAaUeT7UvkdQXcjfjb6pVpXFKTZoBHSWznRzRuP R7jwK0Bi1hPlR5Ml5V9DVcNY0lgndxMPohluIgGs= In-Reply-To: References: <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> <20230321001019.GA4531@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> <4295238B-FA57-49B6-B57B-78FFB2603B90@gmx.de> <8301258b8fffa18bd14279bff043dd03@rjmcmahon.com> <43bcbc338aecb44a1bef49489ab6f9c8@rjmcmahon.com> <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> <9edd011a1a6615470b34e0837896a15f@rjmcmahon.com> X-Referenced-Uid: 00010126567702d5 Thread-Topic: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat X-Blue-Identity: !l=665&o=43&fo=3650&pl=570&po=0&qs=PREFIX&f=HTML&m=!%3AODY4NDIxODAtZDYzYS00ZmFiLTk1N2EtZjE0NWVlYzg4ZGQ1%3ASU5CT1g%3D%3AMDAwMTAxMjY1Njc3MDJkNQ%3D%3D%3AANSWERED&p=541&q=SHOW X-Is-Generated-Message-Id: true User-Agent: Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----AGCWDXPRRC6R254T834MCRSZR4SZN3" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Robert McMahon Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:38:53 -0700 To: Bruce Perens CC: Sebastian Moeller , Dave Taht via Starlink , dan ,Frantisek Borsik , libreqos ,Rpm , bloat Message-ID: <342ee37a-cf06-4b57-85f6-6d13a06f3330@rjmcmahon.com> Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:38:55 -0000 ------AGCWDXPRRC6R254T834MCRSZR4SZN3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Sorry about your Healthcare experiences=2E It sucks it's rationed=2E Far fr= om perfect=2E We've got a ways to go for sure=2E Thankfully, today's medica= l communities aren't using shit ladder water sources=2E Previous generation= s of leaders in their field got that right=2E My view is that leaders in = our industry actually lead and stop making excuses for about the world suck= s and it's not doable=2E I know it sucks for many, been there done that=2E = Let's focus our energies every day on making it better to the extent we can= =2E Then go to our graves in repose with Thomas Grey's epitaph THE EPITAP= H Here rests his head upon the lap of Earth =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 A youth to Fortune and to Fame unknown=2E Fair Science frown'd not o= n his humble birth, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And Melancholy mar= k'd him for her own=2E Large was his bounty, and his soul sincere, =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Heav'n did a recompense as largely send: He = gave to Mis'ry all he had, a tear, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 He = gain'd from Heav'n ('twas all he wish'd) a friend=2E No farther seek his m= erits to disclose, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Or draw his frailti= es from their dread abode, (There they alike in trembling hope repose) =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The bosom of his Father and his God=2E B= ob On Mar 25, 2023, 3:57 PM, at 3:57 PM, Bruce Perens = wrote: >On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 3:04=E2=80=AFPM Robert McMahon > >wrote: > >> My opinion is poor people shouldn't have to = pay for insurance to >insurance >> companies, companies that figure figures= for a living=2E >> > >Be sure to be out there campaigning at every electio= n=2E Really >off-topic, >but IMO the current scheme of health insurance kee= ps many people from >going >into their own business, and keeps them working= for large companies=2E >I'm >sure that's deliberate=2E Valerie works for t= he University, which is the >only >thing that kept me under health insuranc= e - I'm just a consultant=2E >California would give me a plan today, but mo= st states would not=2E >November's heart attack cost $359K, the insurance c= ompany negotiated >60K >away and paid the rest, charging me $125=2E Prices = aren't going to fall >unless we get single-payer like most civilized countr= ies=2E Somebody >*does *have >to pay for health care, though, and the choic= es are out of your pocket, >or >in your taxes, or through inflation=2E > >A= digression: I could do an LMR 600 passive cable system looped with >> Wilk= inson power dividers, patch antennas and nests to protect the >egress >> es= cape ladder for about $10 to $15K=2E Don't need an SLA=2E We've >basically = >> priced protecting human lives to only rich people=2E >> > >If it's going= indoors between the units, you need plenum-rated cable=2E >LMR >is really = pricey in plenum-rated, RG-6 is more than adequate and more >reasonably pri= ced=2E RF between units is a legacy medium, though, there >should be plenum= -rated CAT-8=2E The dividers can be of the sort specified >for >cable TV=2E= Wilkinson would be overkill and this is just a tiny toroid >transformer in= the box=2E > >The very best way to future proof is not with any sort of wi= re or >fiber, >but with conduit with lots of room, that can be re-pulled=2E= > >I think it's on us to do similar for digital communication networks=2E = >> They're needed far beyond entertainment, and we need to get public >safe= ty >> elements engaged too=2E >> > >I'm really dubious=2E Anyone who has to= cope with the cost is going to >hear >the siren call of wireless no matter= how inappropriate it is to the >task=2E >You will be lucky if fiber makes = it to urban buildings=2E ------AGCWDXPRRC6R254T834MCRSZR4SZN3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry about = your Healthcare experiences=2E It sucks it's rationed=2E Far from perfect= =2E We've got a ways to go for sure=2E Thankfully, today's medical communit= ies aren't using shit ladder water sources=2E Previous generations of leade= rs in their field got that right=2E


My = view is that leaders in our industry actually lead and stop making excuses = for about the world sucks and it's not doable=2E I know it sucks for many, = been there done that=2E Let's focus our energies every day on making it bet= ter to the extent we can=2E

Then go to our = graves in repose with Thomas Grey's epitaph

THE EPITAPH
Here rests his head upon the lap o= f Earth
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A = youth to Fortune and to Fame unknown=2E
Fair Sc= ience frown'd not on his humble birth,
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And Melancholy mark'd him for her own=2E
=
Large was his bounty, and his soul sincere,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Heav'n did a= recompense as largely send:
He gave to Mis'ry = all he had, a tear,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 He gain'd from Heav'n ('twas all he wish'd) a friend=2E

No farther seek his merits to disclose,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Or draw his frailties = from their dread abode,
(There they alike in tr= embling hope repose)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 The bosom of his Father and his God=2E

Bob
On Mar 25, 2023, at 3:57 PM= , Bruce Perens <= bruce@perens=2Ecom> wrote:

= On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 3:04=E2=80=AFPM Robert McMahon < rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon=2Ecom> wrote: =
<= div style=3D"zoom:0%">
My opinion is poor peopl= e shouldn't have to pay for insurance to insurance companies, companies tha= t figure figures for a living=2E

Be sure to be out there campaignin= g at every election=2E Really off-topic, but IMO the current scheme of heal= th insurance keeps many people from going into their own business, and= keeps them working for large companies=2E I'm sure that's delibe= rate=2E Valerie works for the University, which is the only thing that kept= me under health insurance - I'm just a consultant=2E California would give= me a plan today, but most states would not=2E November's heart attack cost= $359K, the insurance company negotiated 60K away and paid the rest, chargi= ng me $125=2E Prices aren't going to fall unless we get single-payer like m= ost civilized countries=2E Somebody does have to pay for health = care, though, and the choices are out of your pocket, or in your taxes, or = through inflation=2E

A digression: I could do an LMR 600 passive cable system l= ooped with Wilkinson power dividers, patch antennas and nests to protect th= e egress escape ladder for about $10 to $15K=2E Don't need an SLA=2E We've = basically priced protecting human lives to only rich people=2E
=

If it's going = indoors between the units, you need plenum-rated cable=2E LMR is reall= y pricey in plenum-rated, RG-6 is more than adequate and more reasonably pr= iced=2E RF between units is a legacy medium, though, there should be plenum= -rated CAT-8=2E The dividers can be of the sort specified for cable TV=2E W= ilkinson would be overkill and this is just a tiny toroid transformer in th= e box=2E

The very best way to = future proof is not with any sort of wire or fiber, but with conduit with l= ots of room, that can be re-pulled=2E

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=2E8ex;border= -left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I think it's on us to do similar for digit= al communication networks=2E They're needed far beyond entertainment, and w= e need to get public safety elements engaged too=2E
=

I'm really dubious=2E Any= one who has to cope with the cost is going to hear the siren call of wirele= ss no matter how inappropriate it is to the task=2E You will be lucky if fi= ber makes it to urban buildings=2E 
------AGCWDXPRRC6R254T834MCRSZR4SZN3--