From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.184]) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3AF321F11C for ; Thu, 16 May 2013 12:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A850D2016E; Thu, 16 May 2013 15:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 886D663A7E; Thu, 16 May 2013 15:17:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E5363A7C; Thu, 16 May 2013 15:17:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Mikael Abrahamsson In-Reply-To: References: <4766.1367502675@sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3-dev; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] The bigger picture: whats components are used together to fight bloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 19:18:18 -0000 Thanks for the reply. >>>>> "Mikael" == Mikael Abrahamsson writes: >> I anticipate similar problems trying to provide VoIP over (initially: >> stationary) 3G. Two providers have promised me that I'll be able to do PPP >> directly to the devices, but when they show me a price list, it's clearly >> for whole(re)sale. I think the sales people don't understand that they are >> lying, so I have less details on this. Mikael> Even if you do ppp to the device, you're still not the bottleneck. Every 3G Mikael> pluggable device I'm aware of does its own scheduling and just Mikael> emulates/spoofs the ethernet/ppp layer so it's easier to integrate into the Mikael> operating system. I wouldn't be surprised if most phones were done the same Mikael> way, the OS of the system talks to the baseband part, but the baseband part Mikael> does its own queueing. Most phones talk USB serial to the radio. Many even use "AT" command set... Most "rocket sticks" contain the same radio, but it speaks USB-ethernet instead of USB-serial, or sometimes it's a completely proprietary (Windows only) interface. >> So the problem is that we can't always know what amount to shape things >> with. As I am working with a vendor of CPE and access devices which >> says that they have an SDK, I attempting to put together a project to do >> measurements. I will control the layer-3 devices at each end of the PPP(oE) >> link... Mikael> If you want to be able to do sane scheduling on 3GPP devices Mikael> then you need to Mikael> interact with the APIs provided to do traffic prioritization the 3GPP Mikael> way. These are called "Traffic Flow Templates", but they Mikael> basically just sorts Mikael> packets according to criteria into different parallell Mikael> queues (bearers) with Mikael> different priority in the radio network. So you get a few FIFOs instead of Mikael> just one. yes, I'm aware that there are multiple queues. I have no idea at this point if we will get to speak at that layer, I suspect that we will get access to a single queue. The 3G situation is a sometime in 3-quarters thing. The PPPoE situation is next month :-) -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [