From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lb0-x22e.google.com (mail-lb0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1297621F5D8 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbvz5 with SMTP id vz5so50601335lbb.0 for ; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:15:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ixxUEVhjBkfzVmPlUG0p5J9Osfz8hH8Ktf0rkkXbXTM=; b=P3TNliNtIMKzhkLfz7QP23TRFuGSFuqZ2a6J6qqO10vbR+lATSOEqf5OTQeBc5gnKI gYAPOQkkmMTnsSS/QAGgyy9x/YKX94DMXlhb4aWC00uYATwyHK4T6yP9nWQ3FkmXqpB/ OjkaWJd3kep5/6fP8yytXb6IQValf/KsHeo7ecn+bGuVuilQW9CdjxKu2oMfzX6Uzadx vTTaTPsObHqdI7n13b7sqrFBg3ddl3Rb5qtde+4tOd8ygTxNb/m0zh6DJaDzS46gmQqY wxrgl5nJp0f5rmYYDWrR/36xvjcDz7hCN1p2wurznmKnMoHONZng5FQUfnrZg8wfflVv zUbw== X-Received: by 10.152.45.9 with SMTP id i9mr45240294lam.87.1435256155774; Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bass.home.chromatix.fi (176-93-86-175.bb.dnainternet.fi. [176.93.86.175]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v16sm3198209lal.41.2015.06.25.11.15.50 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jun 2015 11:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 21:15:45 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <40204878-C1F4-4AFE-8FD8-72D0B83144FE@gmail.com> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B30B4C@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <04ED8D23-53C3-4F12-9647-3A07FFB43352@tik.ee.ethz.ch> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Cc: "cheshire@apple.com" , "iccrg@irtf.org" , "Bob Briscoe \(bob.briscoe@bt.com\)" , Ingemar Johansson S , =?utf-8?Q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "ietf@trammell.ch" Subject: Re: [Bloat] ECN issues X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2015 18:16:26 -0000 > On 25 Jun, 2015, at 20:49, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > In my case I just managed to show that congestive (rather than path) > loss can be a factor in the reliability of even a low rate, CS6 > prioritized, link local multicast routing protocol (babel), over > present day linux wifi, even using a modern fq+aqm+ecn system. The conventional wisdom certainly is that ECN should be left off simple = 1-RTT request-response protocols, where there is presumed to be no way = to convey and act on the congestion information in the future. DNS is such a protocol, at least for simple queries that fit into UDP. = Ergo, DNS generally doesn=E2=80=99t use ECN at present. But in practice, a DNS resolver makes several queries in rapid = succession, and often the resolver itself has sufficient persistence to = be able to relay congestion state from one query to the next (especially = if it=E2=80=99s a proxy in a CPE router). DNS is also a critical = latency factor in many practical Internet applications, especially Web = traffic. ECN capability effectively increases reliability of delivery = when the bottleneck has AQM, and DNS should respond well to that, since = upon loss (of either request or response) it has to wait for a = exponential-backoff timeout. I think that=E2=80=99s a concept worth pursuing. - Jonathan Morton=