From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x72a.google.com (mail-qk1-x72a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A94A3B2A4 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2024 09:29:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72a.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-787ac94bbabso125848385a.3 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2024 06:29:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1708957743; x=1709562543; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/N+XQs+Ul0LoO3rI8y+crxoJXJZqncvSWESxwIyyDxI=; b=HZcbvGwbTB17oBS6+0QkCaXc6z0CxoLKz59tehVJYIWka9MvuEX9Hs6YMKvq+f10BJ eHVJiw31zHidB6pz5m2dWt0x1Jq7do7le94uts+MliVhpVE02ZcTtpMbk1EHVTgzBaft 8L40zyPExtHGIvvLV3RHg5y45cfzum+oY1o3/VCXfA1aUA/+3x/0nqewMww1tqrpl5BX X3xsmOwrNpFr/Hhh5XQg8qTXzrqjaWOy5gbO6ViionnCWVzofkFjel3fyX3U74+CSdjU s4Tm6xjDOxP3ZSc8yxvLNISiKmT2WZCour7WVo3QCaytGmLrkZkqghQKQZeVHkqZ70eT d8jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1708957743; x=1709562543; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/N+XQs+Ul0LoO3rI8y+crxoJXJZqncvSWESxwIyyDxI=; b=SfbXx7gpWUEK4iLysZq2b/Mwhux4YdEvYlJZXZkvZNg1PGU50olT+wVORyrLFkEdw4 1QXewN6juirqXlFY08UW9cGT99Fl5ajiDJnxEKuuxKuR/WfM0pjQQ+UzTje8jcv4VJVM efQ4gtdHcIJ+usC00o+PN+SJXH7FXckwZCXFjrrqW/Y8mOaIBdJAQNc3Nds/Kvf5Y8+g gzuz+Sirxi4ION3ogc2I/k9kEiFROIVWR2UmXHL5MwpX6Nv7KJ+taN5sV/99nnHsFqCv 9H/OI3vBvTr62TTMnLoDGsoIopUf3qu6GMdv4mrqizqV9fx0X0QakAhtuyucyVg4wztu 9N3g== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUtwZeyWRltg6d9DaHJrpQlbfMrIyuVirSeeQiN2wycQVrc/SgIjZo5WYQ/2fV8k0GzaBugK5kahIQB4GmtVvsgPlQLvBEMi8IAvNI= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzL48ANLKCWPAPxcVlKH+Bib64cto5TqtvM1KHhd2jYugvOrCIB 1s3FU/ALX9lPL/BgkcdsTNRckhe1w5C0+i1ohtZiRQ98L+qxJ+lQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG1Vj3Nt8Iz9uSaekDAS8CsePU1Ts0vwyUnVDWa5q/+L44fkss/oTrZGDB/cPL3mjirOUSkHw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:12cb:b0:787:ab4f:306 with SMTP id e11-20020a05620a12cb00b00787ab4f0306mr7753206qkl.10.1708957737313; Mon, 26 Feb 2024 06:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([198.55.239.40]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t21-20020a05620a451500b00787569fc0dasm2504876qkp.84.2024.02.26.06.28.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Feb 2024 06:28:57 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Brown Message-Id: <421225B5-F352-48CB-844C-E4CD38DFF677@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DC57CBCD-6AE2-41A7-9ED5-6E4D5085543B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 09:28:56 -0500 In-Reply-To: <7E95C000-5972-4ED2-B639-DDAEA2B08309@gmx.de> Cc: Erik Auerswald , bloat To: Sebastian Moeller References: <86B99DBB-251A-4185-8D35-E33A762BF7B0@gmail.com> <20240226092405.GB18166@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> <7E95C000-5972-4ED2-B639-DDAEA2B08309@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) Subject: Re: [Bloat] mDNS (was Disappointment on "Best Newcomer Router" front) X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 14:29:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DC57CBCD-6AE2-41A7-9ED5-6E4D5085543B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for the observations re: "zero configuration OpenWrt install"=20 > On Feb 26, 2024, at 4:47 AM, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> How about "openwrt.local" to conform to mDNS (RFC 6762) and IANA's >> [special-use domain names][1]? Or perhaps "openwrt.internal" in the >> future? >=20 > Or perhaps openwrt.home.arpa...? I think openwrt.local shouldd not be = used, because .local is reserved for mDNS, no? >=20 > OpenWrt defaults to .lan, and .lan is one of the top ten 'leaking' = TLDs already, we should simply< agree never to assign the 10 (or 15 or = whatever) highest leaking fake TLD as true TLDs, and problem solved, = without requiring any more bike shedding from IANA, ICAN, ARPA, ... > I am sure that, as pragmatic as it might be, is not going to happen... = Perhaps because someone intends to convert one/more of the leaking fake = TLDs into real TLDs? Sure. Any of these make sense - use the best practice. The important = points of the proposal (original link at = https://forum.openwrt.org/t/cerowrt-ii-would-anyone-care/110554/106 = ) = are: - Avoid the WAN port's DHCP assigned subnet (what if the ISP uses = 192.168.1.0/24?) - Don't require ANY IP address for default configuration - Instead, use a single well-known mDNS address for initial = configuration by newcomers (Why do I care? I tried to write a one-page How to Install OpenWrt = guide, and wound spending an entire new page describing how to set the = router's LAN address so that it doesn't conflict with the ISP's assigned = range... Sigh.)=20 Thanks. Rich= --Apple-Mail=_DC57CBCD-6AE2-41A7-9ED5-6E4D5085543B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Thanks for the observations re: "zero configuration OpenWrt = install" 

On Feb 26, 2024, at 4:47 AM, Sebastian = Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:


How about "openwrt.local" to conform to mDNS (RFC 6762) and = IANA's
[special-use domain names][1]?  Or perhaps = "openwrt.internal" in the
future?

Or perhaps openwrt.home.arpa...? I think openwrt.local = shouldd not be used, because .local is reserved for mDNS, no?

OpenWrt defaults to .lan, and = .lan is one of the top ten 'leaking' TLDs already, we should simply< = agree never to assign the 10 (or 15 or whatever) highest leaking fake = TLD as true TLDs, and problem solved, without requiring any more bike = shedding from IANA, ICAN, ARPA, ...
I am sure that, as pragmatic as it might be, is not going to = happen... Perhaps because someone intends to convert one/more of the = leaking fake TLDs into real TLDs?

Sure. Any = of these make sense - use the best practice. The important points of the = proposal (original link at https://forum.openwrt.org/t/cerowrt-ii-would-anyone-care/110554= /106) are:

- Avoid the WAN = port's DHCP assigned subnet (what if the ISP uses = 192.168.1.0/24?)
- Don't require ANY IP address for default = configuration
- Instead, use a single well-known mDNS address = for initial configuration by newcomers

(Why do I care? I tried to write a one-page How to = Install OpenWrt guide, and wound spending an entire new page describing = how to set the router's LAN address so that it doesn't conflict with the = ISP's assigned range... Sigh.) 

Thanks.

Rich
= --Apple-Mail=_DC57CBCD-6AE2-41A7-9ED5-6E4D5085543B--