From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE95E3B29E for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 20:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id l12-v6so3031118lja.1 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:44:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=g2k+cGUp/KtDsOVmjI1j5djOGUXtXqTu6agDO+5M6VA=; b=nCwQdvATn6UpPqLZnJN3nCavi65i58Rc/1n5aCfJP3YKZwEAnNkCoDYwSnSlW4kTVI 51FAyZe5ynBJsmigyvgr5jAYfb6Lg9gONoUe75U7Q2mcMOYNtO0YSEH/zExyKPpbX1FR rAMKrI07fGY19QV+dSU9+5tAc8a4nUCHR4zKHz7GcQHETRf+sJW22goons7Obbuk3mtz /msPnC8FkbJVEHdSPxbBARutAyMfkDFYVc/yDTqjc2aS7ZWjENDpBmwcD8CKEY3Qn46N PmscwIq6dDttAWqdGTqyyDll6wBDh2iWp6kgU5vXdOhB6XQaBl/JvcOOY5fcgFdSBhR8 ucMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=g2k+cGUp/KtDsOVmjI1j5djOGUXtXqTu6agDO+5M6VA=; b=IPXksOe4DmuQIPDf1qm6Y40B3x8wvrfAoXTluUl2pjihZcy+ZcH8hYixm+9qWLIsFp 8HGI95TQXpb/ouJYadvAPCy99LAjArXQnmbJImIwlX1P/rqDeKtODMGRu2MWdJeDJhgC cz3xG3M4f1Bix/LQCBj/xgjnaoTS64+wsT7vIM7TSAjkPHrwP8zMFN/ZrF4x/uvegHqy vHPlZi4Dt8pwt1IQl3DVZKSC3jQ1jEDn6JEeWth2a3FaUG4iXNJCfQNBvRGX/riwMDkd qaNIRgeKSMbvYHdoLon0ne2RHzTEnlehhck4/29X0W2MWkODXpSEyGh0/GHPNd7a896f 4wcA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E2oZks/ofIdaKZd1S5UG5Lv6av07y+Ctwxm3TGYVBFA0yW3rMwl yCyxurQjNKZdj/KuEayX3jY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLytkfzSB2gy54cq9Z4pdE9w83FsMBKCItS/TulEpBYOiZ61FIUxW7mQF+oiQhjHr96pWalKQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:6505:: with SMTP id z5-v6mr75346ljb.62.1529973842650; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.105] (83-245-237-65-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.237.65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q27-v6sm61379lfa.1.2018.06.25.17.44.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Jun 2018 17:44:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <642CBFAE-A182-4D6E-968B-411159CBFD9B@superduper.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 03:44:00 +0300 Cc: David Lang , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <422BFE8C-1AAC-4A55-AF1F-448B3B5C0E28@gmail.com> References: <8736xgsdcp.fsf@toke.dk> <838b212e-7a8c-6139-1306-9e60bfda926b@gmail.com> <8f80b36b-ef81-eadc-6218-350132f4d56a@pollere.com> <9dbb8dc8-bec6-8252-c063-ff0ba5fd7c1a@pollere.com> <25305.1529678986@localhost> <47EC21F5-94D2-4982-B0BE-FA1FA30E7C88@gmail.com> <18224.1529704505@localhost> <87muvjnobj.fsf@toke.dk> <68C3BBE1-96DA-41F7-9878-582074C4E769@gmail.com> <642CBFAE-A182-4D6E-968B-411159CBFD9B@superduper.net> To: Simon Barber X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Subject: Re: [Bloat] lwn.net's tcp small queues vs wifi aggregation solved X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 00:44:04 -0000 > On 26 Jun, 2018, at 3:36 am, Simon Barber = wrote: >=20 > Most hardware needs the packet finalized before it starts to contend = for the medium (as far as I=E2=80=99m aware - let me know if you know = differently). One issue is that if RTS/CTS is in use, then the packet = duration needs to be known in advance (or at least mid point of the RTS = transmission).=20 This is a valid argument. I think we could successfully argue for a = delay of 1ms, if there isn't already enough data in the queue to fill an = aggregate, after the oldest packet arrives until a request is issued. > If there are no other stations competing for airtime, why does it = matter that we use two txops? One further argument would be power consumption. Radio transmitters eat = batteries for lunch; the only consistently worse offender I can think of = is a display backlight, assuming the software is efficient. - Jonathan Morton