Re: [Bloat] bloat in the industry

[Matthew Ford <ford@isoc.org>]

I'll note that ISOC has been pursuing work in this area for some time:

	http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2012/11/its-still-latency-stupid

We're now firmly at the point of figuring out what follow-up activities to pursue in 2013, and suggestions such as yours below are timely.

Other suggestions are also very welcome, probably to me off-list is best.

Mat

On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:33, Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:

> 
> I had a recent conversation with a person active in the IETF transport
> area about bufferbloat.  I was interested in what the transport area
> and the IETF, and the ISOC, could do to bring the issue of bufferbloat
> in devices to the appropriate places in vendor management.
> 
> Said person said that *they* had no problems reaching the CTOs of
> various major router vendors, and that they were responsive to the
> question of bufferbloat.   Great, but I don't know those people myself,
> and most of us do not.  
> 
> It also doesn't get the message out to people who work at medium and
> smaller sized vendors, or to organizations that do not think of
> themselves as being in layer-3/4 at all. (Gigabit layer-2 switch chipset
> vendors for instance)  
> 
> I wear a number of hats.  One of them is CTO and Network Architect of a 
> boutique VoIP provider in Montreal.   On Thursday I will have a telecon
> with a large vendor about a new multi-protoco access switch.  This
> will be the upstream device, and getting bufferbloat under control is
> critical.
> 
> I know that on Thursday the sales person and the sales engineer will be
> unable to spell bufferbloat.  I hope they will understand "AQM"...
> I've raised this with them before, but their organization has not yet
> socialized this issue throughout their ranks. 
> 
> What *I* need is a place, perhaps at isoc.org, where key contacts on the
> bufferbloat issue at each vendor can be kept, and I could refer sales
> person from vendor X to bufferbloat expert at vendor X.  
> It needs to be vaguely wiki-ish and forum-ish (as much as I hate
> forums), so that even if we can't get vendor Z to fix their product, we
> can at least share information about what did work and what didn't work.
> 
> (Bandwidth limits for instance, usually don't work even if they are
> possible, for VPN tunnels)
> 
> Furthermore, when I encounter a vendor who is not on the list, I want to
> be able to refer them to a place where I can use an "appeal to authority"
> to get them to actually make their CTO pay attention.  
> 
> I have CC'ed Dan York, who likely isn't on this list.
> I am thinking a new "deploy 360" category...
> 
> -- 
> ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [ 
> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [ 
> ]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [ 
> 	
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