From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 379BB3B29E for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 11:27:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1557761254; bh=4uX/bRX5k+YlYDPx+wPZBeacFyl5zn0mvwIYqcjeK/Q=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=NcpCDw/8WXo+1ChUgLVoVca2qoGsFtyrjEcvSJADZvfbiEdsmJ7xhOpHwxz7dRKj6 N4A5c23wKQdGTUxMFqNvY5W8IPLUUAgH8XO8t86V/Kdy5rx2h1JS9OV7DqUJRRHr1c NVyX0pLKuL0cbMOxho3+cfsxMWG5WKRB9Q8muRLc= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [172.17.3.45] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LjIBr-1gq2Ib1gat-00dYmv; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:27:34 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 17:27:33 +0200 Cc: bloat , Greg White Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <435DE302-6F36-47A2-9338-CADED90CB66B@gmx.de> References: To: Neal Cardwell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UxbWhksVF7a7tphNuF1Xo0+EgbaxYI16x8A9CGXwn0G5ou6RcyE BqEttrP4hYmTrqmAVy/rCREyx0dVpXeVBy1lHnMeHjnVTl6mmcHRmIONIGRz/0tj9a+VGMA FcxLLh8h5zdU47+mVMXcxLhGN09bgme9JIFD4rCjDtkibpHxAxG7g5vm1xTbrvOYqsxiRbs zKaqD4eoSC4DlSy+lY5sQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:/j5XUaC/AXQ=:EVCV6Inuyr8KBxjcQmHtYD TtHTwPLrky7yLk4jKMh7LrQ1wRmvMuK6YsVYpiD92RcB9TaTBlQRr+agwp7oMpp5I7+8LkLoV 16eeRYiwqO8VvIZPzOxvQreTDgRB+rl0dKYPBtunuIxwf/Deu6gDCaM5Ezg+pjZGXwfFXoJRQ HShW83sQwn2OcbNv685SRUHWBbZf4bUoxceNWVvgMmYjCZPj+AK+LBEFGzxGAt1IuMMFPmacE VPoXOsvf8V91uRitipIVvGzoaKeqyuzbrqThD6GDhRva7XxkSjnHJH4qVD3qDPPiZMWKBjSkQ uX8VWy12Cz5Ed9RUymUhqQEwABQVHw5W99fnkfr7SlYzYgeLThFWF/jhtDYNTwqS8XCQrTyuu mdhLOxoEIeWRtr/hdis8yJkst1l36JY8eRB4jz/B86PO54aPuPfRSYneiMt53VzOcqWrPcZqk kEcOLTDFszFJRIa1F6Jy2v62SgzbCBR8xx9VL8OPn/w6+4WkxdoEgC2vP3KB3vZetIOjGmoVi ucjRxPolaMaZjf3cUNzg0Prn9Fint0ngeRbjI+6rm16XIvr3XSDndXWlEwup3Yee5QcFzFGjE xorSVec18K/sfuDnsa1w0iRqBWtejMrKfuC3KFKpSHgVZd8c+d0nAl6DFBHfwzof/kimHM3L5 0JS10YpR8k2M6be3u65BeEOquTQpRMIO/f6E1pp4mm/NoPSfVkn4NL3xBlfuIlRNqXLIc7MGa sdYPM6IKDdauPydCKrnzJLYzBeJevJ/Ouy8ra/5JdNE3swKCHXHnXRCdjfKVyyaNT03i/5772 CZX7+GWLK0F3Wg3e3518o9EJiWwm5Qhmds93dyDEyj+XPBFSidOcBr/A1bg3Nfqtxq9Mhyv1d 5q2M+XqWZZt6mmYX3+0Q0Q7KszHvcMXlLNCQI8kiAU3RcfHGlH00tSWlB8G8rl17IsWgb3yCG c7ffRUrAkUg== Subject: Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:27:41 -0000 Hi Neal, > On May 13, 2019, at 17:13, Neal Cardwell wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the details! >=20 > Given that DOCSIS 3.1 (released initially in 2013) has many revisions = - https://specification-search.cablelabs.com/CM-SP-MULPIv3.1?v=3D03 - = and low-latency DOCSIS and L4S was added in 2019 = (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I17-190121), I had been under the impression that the = PIE AQM for upstream traffic was also added in some later revision. But = I do see now that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was in Annex M of the = initial 3.1 spec (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I01-131029). Yes, that was actually pretty col to see this as a requirement = from day 1. It is a bit of a downer how long the ISPs take/took to = actually roll-out docsis 3.1. >=20 > Does anyone happen to know if (and if so, how widely) the major cable = ISPs world-wide enable the upstream PIE AQM functionality? I have no clue, but I believe Greg White (CC'd) might have more = insight in this. Best Regards Sebastian >=20 > neal >=20 >=20 > From: Sebastian Moeller > Date: Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM > To: bloat, Neal Cardwell >=20 > Hi Neal, >=20 > As far as I can tell the PIE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, = do Al you need is a modem certified for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS = ISP supplying 3.1 services (I assume the AQM will only be engaged in a = docsis 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS the ISP basically has control over = the CPE, so you would need their cooperation. Not every DOCSIS ISP will = provision any customer modem, but I assume you have enough leverage to = make this happen. >=20 > Anyway according to the spec sheets: > AVM Fritzbox 6591 > Netgear CM1000-1AZNAS > Arris SB8200 > Motorola MB8600 > should give you what you want. >=20 > Best Reards > Sebastian >=20 > P.S.: I would love to hear your results, as information about the = effects of docsis pie in the wild is quite limited... >=20 >=20 > On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell = wrote: > Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for = purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my = searches for this have only found other people asking this question, = rather than the answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be = easy to find.) >=20 > I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the = Linux PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable = modem version to play with as well. >=20 > Thanks! > neal >=20