From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm3-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm3-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D4733B25E for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:56:02 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s2048; t=1477590962; bh=NAWlobslIyi+WW9O3jtNVdy1OQMAxo/VtN6dDhIW/zw=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=PJJl7oIjba4VH/5lV7iuBzkZhpRE91jpKeMaSQkfIODCvnZvFCdcQEzq29G92zjV0Ot+pky0PSqYAtXLsW8D3KJ1pRNn4oigrnc+BE6blEgQORNRDdTLT5AEvrA/yxFQNsqPz0E7RKlefXwtfFKyynYKCJMBrbNjYhJ9K57ce7CH68iyJuW4Rg0ojxtU+5EwmPCELjOjW/q2V0q7K/ZCz65LyjYUGJzlzY0Uo5yxgbqONh0DPjpPNwmeVnAWgH8ZWDMmQgJIpvSG/Hn50ecNYn0WqxoQsBULJ1fWaaAsdylDSPOCXnjSnHp7zQ8NjFt/JopwhWSCtiMYwK0En6/oEw== Received: from [216.39.60.170] by nm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2016 17:56:02 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.145] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2016 17:56:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2016 17:56:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 41177.54841.bm@smtp117.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: lz4Qqi8VM1mzoQHDx7eWTmPcQqXTt4Vrf3LMEatNIFRU5Vo l05ayuXgZlBFyxZ2PF3sput8H.u2MAhom8KKQlzVMiMpm9RcqGecGmWUAVtD UqlXaJ83MM51NYKLHoqYWuOh5s5D8EU7Yf0uOEoJW0QE21RhFzEq9gGzInX9 q5yf.VRq9vZqJpfNeIso3JqmFOfloU4MvPMkNUyAg9FqvJLVdMleDgwom4ic TqTnEY0_Q5d1ydi5mJnWCQ8GB8_gU0W9KwPMtvRIFQG7ruGhGnNBBGqDaxzh fJ0UnWsXUQ1hI8qfUasFMbB8Ruw6MqIrViMP1YGVmzAdDhPVjlXKVwC6t1kd PeEW2Am_vS_2qdlss5dtDL37lGfGFtu3jMam9xe1Grrl7yu6y1.rImvz6dc2 Hyjj3EOyP9uoFB3bGLKnsTCqITmt9ViLYC7PkleM4DwVHXxgF2Tj.bumgtD8 9kBB31XlUCsseDay8cr02L_9CpF5uX0ZrbzxQRarsrb9qVCNGvMp4YPNKW_q YRr4MyuP6EGLrEbvI69_XweaU1jS6abzuLQztkJqGsW1YDAvak3ED4NNo X-Yahoo-SMTP: sltvjZWswBCRD.ElTuB1l9j6s9wRYPpuyTNWOE5oEg-- Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net References: <5a2d4224-3f4e-80f0-3b0b-b2fbbdd59697@gmail.com> <77a4abf0-bc94-0d2e-eebe-d72e2e676255@gmail.com> To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net, Dave Taht From: David Collier-Brown Message-ID: <43e779f2-5bff-ad4c-8e7f-6b339a7f0123@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 13:56:00 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Bloat] Sidebar on s-curves X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 17:56:03 -0000 On 27/10/16 12:56 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > When you are on one side of an S curve, it's hard to see where it flattens out. > > I've been meaning to research and write a piece called "have we > reached 'Peak Bandwidth'"? for a while now. > > My thesis is that what users actually want is short RTTs for > interactive, once basic bandwidth needs are slaked, which starts to > happen once you crack the largest typical load (which these days is 4k > video streaming). > > gbit fiber is *way* on the unneeded side of the demand curve for home users. > It's not an s-curve, but Neil Gunther had done some very interesting work on load/throughput curves, specifically including predicting the drop-off after reaching 100%. Look for the Universal Scalability Law. http://www.perfdynamics.com/Manifesto/USLscalability.html I suspect it might be a variant of the same problem. --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain