From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out04.uio.no (mail-out04.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:8210::76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 520BF3B29D for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-mx12.uio.no ([129.240.10.84]) by mail-out04.uio.no with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1w1m-005ADT-SM; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 22:23:42 +0200 Received: from [185.176.244.72] (helo=smtpclient.apple) by mail-mx12.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1w1l-000EDi-Pz; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 22:23:42 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.100.31\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 22:23:41 +0200 Cc: bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <442640EE-F99D-407C-A820-F1844D6F42C1@ifi.uio.no> References: <580DF947-1160-405C-9019-0A6CD8FC49A3@ifi.uio.no> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.100.31) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx12.uio.no: 185.176.244.72 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=185.176.244.72; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=smtpclient.apple; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 9CC0F60B2760EDA1D93EBF19265C41B241E4D0DA X-UiOonly: B6FC93735DFF29FB833895984BDFBCEF4252570D Subject: Re: [Bloat] the future of tcp - train wreck or evolution? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 20:23:45 -0000 > On Jun 16, 2022, at 6:39 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM Michael Welzl = wrote: >>=20 >> =E2=80=A6 but I=E2=80=99m excited about slide 15 ! >>=20 >> "Heat, CO2, and radioactive waste are becoming measurable by-products = of TCP inefficiency >> Fix TCP =3D> Save the World!=E2=80=9D >=20 > QUIC contributes 3x(?) more to global warming than TCP in these cases. Why? Cheers, Michael > Btw, there's an interesting company attempting to put DCs underwater, > perhaps attached to old oil rigs or under windfarms, looking for their > first investment round, here, if you know anyone? >=20 > https://www.subseacloud.com/ >=20 > I was a big jock cousteau fan back in the day. >=20 > Me, I've been mostly moving back to local applications, libreoffice is > a real joy compared to google docs, and I figure local apps are far, > far more power efficient than DCs are. >=20 >> People don=E2=80=99t yet focus enough on this - and it=E2=80=99s not = only relevant in a data center context. See also: >>=20 >> Michael Welzl: "Not a Trade-Off: On the Wi-Fi Energy Efficiency of = Effective Internet Congestion Control", IEEE/IFIP WONS 2022, virtual, 30 = March - 1 April 2022. >> Preprint: = https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publications/wons2022_= authors_version.pdf >>=20 >> A couple of IETFs ago, I did sign up to present something along these = lines at an ICCRG meeting, but I asked late and got squeezed into an = =E2=80=9Cif time permits=E2=80=9D slot; some day in the future I=E2=80=99l= l ask for a =E2=80=9Cproper slot=E2=80=9D to elaborate on this. >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Michael >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jun 16, 2022, at 4:35 AM, Dave Taht via Bloat = wrote: >>=20 >> as seen in 2008. >>=20 >> https://slideplayer.com/slide/5747321/ >>=20 >> Regrettably all the answers on slide 13 are elided. >=20 > It was how clearly pugs saw things back then that was remarkable. I've > been really enjoying his twitter and blog ( https://akapugs.blog/) > lately. Also on a recent thread he pointed out this really excellent > computer history book: > https://twitter.com/aka_pugs/status/1537229947042820096 >=20 > History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes. >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> FQ World Domination pending: = https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > FQ World Domination pending: = https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC