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([2607:fea8:561f:e34d::5c53]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k134sm14649231qke.60.2020.08.10.07.16.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:16:39 -0700 (PDT) From: David Collier-Brown X-Google-Original-From: David Collier-Brown Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net To: Jonathan Morton , tomh@tomh.org Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net, davecb@spamcop.net References: <225a9c89-ac76-f21e-1450-5deeb3cd23eb@tomh.org> Message-ID: <46f7fff8-a441-6aaf-7ae7-77ee8273b5f7@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:16:38 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Bloat] Sidebar to "How about a topical LWN article on demonstrating the real-world goodness of CAKE?" X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:16:41 -0000 On 2020-08-09 5:35 p.m., Jonathan Morton wrote: > Most CPE devices these days rely on hardware accelerated packet forwarding to achieve their published specs. That's all about taking packets in one side and pushing them out the other as quickly as possible, with only minimal support from the CPU (likely, new connections get a NAT/firewall lookup, that's all). It has the advantages of speed and power efficiency, but unfortunately it is also incompatible with our debloating efforts. So debloated CPE will tend to run hotter and with lower peak throughput, which may be noticeable to cable and fibre users; VDSL (FTTC) users might have service of 80Mbps or less where this effect is less likely to matter. I have an interest in the next step up from mass-market routers, and this description made my ears prick up. At work we have a decent network, carefully designed about 15 years ago to get work from Akamai, distribute it over mostly-in-the-same-DC service providers, then return it to the end-user customer. The IT folks don't know how it works, but are confident that it does (;-)) The nets we use for WFH are a little newer, but we had no idea if we were going to be able to work from home or hold conference calls with 400-odd people. So we had to send everyone home on a Monday to try the experiment. Fortunately it worked. That makes me curious about the customer-premises equipment we and others have, and to what degree it can be de-bloated. I know the datacenter vendors were being resistant when the problem was first solved, but I've not heard anything positive to date.  Cisco makes vaguely hand-wavey statements about DOCSIS 3.1 and PIE, but doesn't seem to answer customer questions, What do we know about large-home and small-office devices these days? --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain