From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E07F201253 for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 06:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D7520168 for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 10:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id C124163A62; Thu, 2 May 2013 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2888638E8 for ; Thu, 2 May 2013 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: bloat In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3-dev; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Subject: Re: [Bloat] The bigger picture: whats components are used together to fight bloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 13:51:49 -0000 >>>>> "Jeroen" == Jeroen Balduyck writes: Jeroen> 1. In order to move the bottleneck to a device under our Jeroen> administrative Jeroen> control, we need to shape traffic (we need to become the Jeroen> bottleneck). It turns out that this is often easy to do suboptimally, but in some cases, it might not be very bad. The two situations which I'm trying to address are white label ("TPIA") ADSL and 3G termination, but my understanding is that the various "PowerBoost" cable modem situations are similar. The issue with ADSL is twofold: 1) we don't know what speed the modem really sync'ed up at. We aren't the layer-2 ISP, and it isn't clear that in the case of third party access, that they even know how to manage the modem to find out what really happened. 2) the capacity of the back haul from the customer to the NNI is uncertain in many ways, and I think customers are not well enough protected from each other. We know that in Canada the ATM network which back hauls the customers to the ISPs is very much under-provisioned: the phone company has said so to the regulator. I anticipate similar problems trying to provide VoIP over (initially: stationary) 3G. Two providers have promised me that I'll be able to do PPP directly to the devices, but when they show me a price list, it's clearly for whole(re)sale. I think the sales people don't understand that they are lying, so I have less details on this. So the problem is that we can't always know what amount to shape things with. As I am working with a vendor of CPE and access devices which says that they have an SDK, I attempting to put together a project to do measurements. I will control the layer-3 devices at each end of the PPP(oE) link... -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [