From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E60C3B260 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id t196so104559900lff.3 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:26:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XqlsfRrwOwfPhNZdPbp76TcRgcd0+GcA8MArsbSNF1Y=; b=S06Gb1wykLxOV3dlu+cllQtZRtsr9btD+zkvTq5WZ/6//SPcl9FOoaEzkYYDCBEpOs 2NsgC4Fq6HPac6uyui6mccpcTclXkE/RgQ3lZW93O6jai0z3OSlm3cmWBLOop2mOxITr QWha06F5yhatw8EzJJYP4TqUWnb+MwKGNBLqo3vywePztiI/CeapDDjMvq76fVXaKWot uutgq0lLeJgf3AaDciVnbRx07ORioEjj3oMiGn1Wyk4TWDyAu4FPN4+47Oww2fxWGO0R G8xKjj5u8jlwgzDPdi5bMVTUfcDL2A/syy0ouQE6c3p62/sTiK5uQLR1euq1iKbVyWgz p86Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XqlsfRrwOwfPhNZdPbp76TcRgcd0+GcA8MArsbSNF1Y=; b=T1IvMeZAKPGK7gnDyVGS5zvIT8ip2pSASvDan+IP6JCnb8PfZNhkIXQPtc31Wak+2r Aq4ba2IAAI7R7fqT6jwaxq/ca0EWY5SPyEoidSvhQDITi+bbtFa6DoaoeexoATwuhK+X mScuLWq2rHg4aEnnpLxdbyWEgvtldTF6mi1ndTTqUIkIY4HbuSAQ2Eqvz5nGjbER54LC 6jj3T/PVWxq4BnGMcbzfUul/s2Ul8szFjR68+16Lsjrvkp0fzgPuq+OsNlzKKCBi9uvC lrGJQBLpaA+dIwJve7oJ5BzqTjYCaCbronQaYFyzaRXBOYVEcz/DY2y66bLPWRI2LVan kfJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC0384e6cXYz2qzWVXEQm/lKSufpIGxLkqbPRipOZx2nzZMf8r8kAsjU49QgX0m3UwA== X-Received: by 10.25.89.137 with SMTP id n131mr7320965lfb.75.1480361204245; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.100.13] (37-33-82-144.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.82.144]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l135sm13015352lfe.10.2016.11.28.11.26.43 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:26:43 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 21:26:42 +0200 Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <499965DD-26DF-42A2-B79A-95109C13C950@gmail.com> References: <836b6c89-d7a0-49e1-e1b4-8e98b9263c1d@pollere.com> To: davecb@spamcop.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Bloat] How to "sell" improvement X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 19:26:45 -0000 > On 28 Nov, 2016, at 20:37, David Collier-Brown = wrote: >=20 > I'm using latency as the time from the request to the first response > transfer time as the time from the first response to the last = response, which may be 0, and > sleep/think time as the time from the last response to the next = request, for a given stream of requests and responses, AKA = "transactions" This is a useful set of definitions, though I would quibble that = =E2=80=9Ctransfer time=E2=80=9D should also be measured from the = request, not from the first response. A more complete picture would add a measure of application-induced = delay, which is visible to the user but not necessarily to the network. = It is influenced mainly by the end host's performance, not by anything = in the network, and would presumably count as part of the =E2=80=9Cthink = time=E2=80=9D for many applications. Hence it=E2=80=99s not relevant = for *our* objectives, but might be to others. Incidentally, did anyone notice that Intel revived their old = =E2=80=9Coptimised for the Internet=E2=80=9D marketing fluff for their = new Kaby Lake CPUs? Last seen for the Pentium III, and just as = disingenuous. - Jonathan Morton