From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm18-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm18-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.23]) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DC117200296 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2012 14:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.94.237.127] by nm18.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2012 22:24:13 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.68] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2012 22:24:13 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp105.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2012 22:24:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1326147853; bh=GktIA671ddyKCswlElqSL4EewhHNKbl6mfZzssGxjO0=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=I1keuT7W3vHAHUl5zp4zq/WIENg2wLy3gY9CiRe67L+JWCzzvqtgs6gCbNSFhCga0SA6P00gndjtWg5AS071XI8+DneBkA3o1vFThXmdiH08AU0kIUTawuMCPXP4B2+ype+4/15CdmBOwyjDmJg9/wYIICfqJOUuuDtWWcBkopI= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 339632.19510.bm@smtp105.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: diE4B9UVM1mjdokKJdqD2xYY82ginIcq0xixWibheWF1GDV 5j2G2FjcHfRYjKE9NWZsZeitv.29H1VP9oHRpLYr0kJrxIpX70f8fCiZBEJy O8Tiqh752uVc4JQ856O21GxeEXfjayiXRVL9O7lhZuFnJ9Yuv.ewXkv81l.I Sw33uozXbS7sdrLjTVQV8aK1CgAItJKJJcVUiTmmJAADGdzkNALzbEuSLv4x 8u9sMQdvlGlnhb02iwItgAlZaN.TdNLa52zKPmWcCKC7eDu4.SWfM9yzHt.C ncfj7Xk.5H5mEZ0nGGalnPfOx8_vILvbQbE61p3DZp59qHOHF0Ubl5PMP9mQ lhKB53FUQ3O2vK_VEVPvM3FouLCDzpB25yUoL7NFi1vG0PTzH6hIPtCfe06Q rEm3aFfQoLxfvGGMlIQR6_NBN_6cN2mizfTRxxLsO.ZBWCOL4zDDNhWnGWD7 VCJeif.EB9Rzim3sUvtdU69RmHVzo_H7kpydW96gLPkIN4msQ1p0- X-Yahoo-SMTP: sltvjZWswBCRD.ElTuB1l9j6s9wRYPpuyTNWOE5oEg-- Received: from [192.168.1.102] (davec-b@72.136.202.103 with plain) by smtp105.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 09 Jan 2012 14:24:13 -0800 PST Message-ID: <4F0B69BE.2010203@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:27:10 -0500 From: David Collier-Brown User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081119) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Bloat] Re: What is fairness, anyway? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2012 22:24:17 -0000 Bob Briscoe wrote: | All I would add is that in the family scenario, all the users have control over the hosts which are already able to control transfer rates. So no-one needs or wants to twiddle knobs on home gateways to improve family harmony. In the first instance, app developers have the interests of family harmony at heart. They don't want to write apps that pee off their users. And if there's a chance they will be peeved, the app developer can add a knob in the app. I think separation of concerns is appropriate here: if I want to manage some particular flows in the context of a home network, I'll bring up trickle. The daemon, not the protocol! See http://monkey.org/~marius/pages/?page=trickle Then I get an explicit, user-visible knob to manage any special cases, such as a over-long transfer eating my wife's more important transfer! --dave c-b -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain (416) 223-8968