From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qa0-f43.google.com (mail-qa0-f43.google.com [209.85.216.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A0E121F0B6 for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qadb33 with SMTP id b33so402756qad.16 for ; Thu, 10 May 2012 06:12:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=o9y9NuUi6qgtzePad4DnFqVDVoDBamz+Ysgs25kuE9g=; b=KHAn5p5E3wP/Pjt2fvcPPajjkF7TgnkgTiCp6mUnVz4rXMLFBfBJVAYlbvC/tpJvzo I4t1ewAamjWaV2y+Au1IgJRfspfsuaRavidUdt1h5Ys9QxjndHk2vvAeX4eipbzrMKMw qnkiWtn3e6Kp7VYWCSZGm60ewyuPFKNddreQaEgX5IMzVTcEoa2pGgIbYaC1SEVtGCAg g10Y+lnA2PQHOQw7IeT3IDisvNoN/B54btvSoYrxD2pCBMOmybFMxk0w2a0txN8tjoUV txkY6jVbTqzD7kHpynsBMIuwdqSBxGiNryN8UbkVmhMNshGkyhaRKgphXkJ+859yjUXp Ipyg== Received: by 10.224.211.3 with SMTP id gm3mr11473585qab.72.1336655569046; Thu, 10 May 2012 06:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.81] (c-50-138-160-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [50.138.160.40]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dl3sm16353849qab.9.2012.05.10.06.12.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 10 May 2012 06:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Jim Gettys Message-ID: <4FABBECE.7040707@freedesktop.org> Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 09:12:46 -0400 From: Jim Gettys Organization: Bell Labs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hal Murray References: <20120510083002.A6AE5800037@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> In-Reply-To: <20120510083002.A6AE5800037@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] The challenge X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 13:12:50 -0000 On 05/10/2012 04:30 AM, Hal Murray wrote: >> It is counter-intuitive to keep a queue filled with packets that you might >> drop later - as an engineer you tend to think it is more efficient to drop a >> packet *before* it starts to consume space in your precious queue. This is >> a good deal of what needs to be solved in wireless drivers ... Memory is so cheap that in a wireless router these days the buffers are in the noise of memory consumption. > On the other hand, if your problem is buffer bloat, maybe the queue space > isn't so precious. > > Yes, I too tend to think that way, but maybe it will sink in if I see a few > reminders. Thanks. The only place where memory cost is still any issue is in very high end routers. There, it's been shown you don't need the traditional BDP buffering anyway, but much, much less. - Jim